| Author |
Message |
|
Patrick Fitzmartin
|
 Posted: Mon 17 Nov, 2003 3:54 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
Greetings Kirk, I know what you mean. I have very few I haven't "tweaked" somehow. I finally figured out how to make our cheapie digital camera work and how to do the attachment thing, so we will see if I can get over my "shyness". The additional pics of the Arbedo are excellent. MRL really did well on that one. I handled their Viking Transitional sword at the Texas Ren. Fest. this weekend. Fell in love with that one too.  Sincerely, Patrick Fitzmartin
|
|
  |
 |
Tom Carr
|
| Posted: Wed 19 Nov, 2003 1:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Hey Kirk! I see your in Dallas. Good to know others in the Metroplex that are of like mind. I like your redo on the Arbedo. I tend to do that to my swords as well. I have done a MRL Medieval short sword in a similar fashion. We have to get together some time and compare notes. Heres a pic of the shorty. I copied the ecth from an original one from a 14th cen. Type XVI out of Oakeshott's Archeology of Weapons.
 Attachment: 62.29 KB
|
|
 |
|
|
Geoff Wood
|
| Posted: Wed 19 Nov, 2003 2:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Mr Carr
Love the blue/greens. Care to share how you got those shades?
Geoff
|
|
|
|
|
Tom Carr
|
| Posted: Wed 19 Nov, 2003 7:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Geoff Wood wrote: | Mr Carr
Love the blue/greens. Care to share how you got those shades?
Geoff |
I used hot apple cider vineger patted on with a rag. That gives you areas that have more of the acidic vineger than others. It also gives that nice old splotch grey that very old, but well kept swords have. The etching was also done useing the hot cider vineger. I used a crayon as a wax resist and built a dam around that with candle wax. I took a small awl and scratched out the design then spooned hot vineger into the dammed area. About 2 hours per side, constantly spooning in new hot vineger when that cooled down. I neutralized the acid with baking soda and took off the resist. The etch was a deep black, so I took 600 grit sand paper and gently polished the area out. It left the etch. I used a gold paint pen to fill the design so it looked like gold inlay. Then I patted the blade down with the vineger till I got the patina I wanted, and neutralized with the baking soda. And SHAZAM!!! I got this! I also reshaped the guard with dragon heads on the ends. It's also a very good cutter by the way.
Attachment: 93.62 KB
|
|
|
|
|
Tom Carr
|
| Posted: Wed 19 Nov, 2003 7:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The dragon heads.
Attachment: 93.99 KB
|
|
|
|
|
Kirk Lee Spencer
|
| Posted: Sun 23 Nov, 2003 1:26 pm Post subject: My King Magnus |
|
|
| Patrick Fitzmartin wrote: | | Greetings Kirk, I know what you mean. I have very few I haven't "tweaked" somehow. I finally figured out how to make our cheapie digital camera work and how to do the attachment thing, so we will see if I can get over my "shyness". The additional pics of the Arbedo are excellent. MRL really did well on that one. I handled their Viking Transitional sword at the Texas Ren. Fest. this weekend. Fell in love with that one too. Sincerely, Patrick Fitzmartin |
Patrick,
I was able to get a beat-up MRL King Magnus... It is one of my many future projects.
I believe MRLs King Magnus replica is the sword upon which the current MRL tranistional Viking Sword replica was based (a replica of a replica).
I was really suprized with the King Magnus, the blade does not look or feel like a typical MRL Windlass blade. It does
not have the same rippling on the surface and it has more blade presence... It might be an old Del Tin blade???
My problem in starting on this project (other than time) is I have never seen the pommel of the original from the top or side to see how thick it is. It appears that MRLs version is much thicker than the original, but I can not be sure until I get a look at it from another angle.
Anyway I have plans to refine the shape of the pommel, brown the furniture, weather the blade a bit, and put a new grip on it that has a blue and green scottish tartan look to it... (I think Magnus was a barefoot scot or something like that.)
Here is a picture of the Original and the MRL Magnus version.
Kirk
Attachment: 11.09 KB
Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
Last edited by Kirk Lee Spencer on Sat 08 May, 2004 7:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
Kirk Lee Spencer
|
| Posted: Sun 23 Nov, 2003 1:45 pm Post subject: Plans for My Dracula |
|
|
| Tom Carr wrote: | | Hey Kirk! I see your in Dallas. Good to know others in the Metroplex that are of like mind. I like your redo on the Arbedo. I tend to do that to my swords as well. I have done a MRL Medieval short sword in a similar fashion. We have to get together some time and compare notes. Heres a pic of the shorty. I copied the ecth from an original one from a 14th cen. Type XVI out of Oakeshott's Archeology of Weapons. |
Howdy neighbor,
I'll leave you a PM...
I got me one of those Factory X Dracula swords too. I plan on reshaping the upper blade a bit and grinding the heck out of the pommel to make a close approximation of a sword I have liked for some time. Peter Johnsson and Albion now have a very find replica of it
http://www.albionarmorers.com/swords/johnsson/solingen.htm
Until I can afford that beauty, I'll try to make my Dracula transform into one.
Here they are together... Dracula is about two inches shorter.
Kirk
Attachment: 6.49 KB
Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
Last edited by Kirk Lee Spencer on Sat 08 May, 2004 7:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
Björn Hellqvist
myArmoury Alumni
|
| Posted: Sun 23 Nov, 2003 2:36 pm Post subject: Re: Plans for My Dracula |
|
|
| Kirk Lee Spencer wrote: | | Until I can afford that beauty, I'll try to make my Dracula transform into one. |
Just let's hope it won't transform into this one...
Attachment: 44.36 KB
My sword site
|
|
 |
|
|
Joe Fults
|
| Posted: Sun 23 Nov, 2003 2:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Again thanks for sharing some of the techniques and results. This thread continues to be interesting.
"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
|
|
|
|
|
Björn Hellqvist
myArmoury Alumni
|
| Posted: Sun 23 Nov, 2003 3:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Joe Fults wrote: | | Again thanks for sharing some of the techniques and results. This thread continues to be interesting. |
Ditto! BTW, Peter Johnsson made a "fake" a few years ago, using aging techniques that fooled me, at least. Here it is:
Here's his description on how he went about it:
| Quote: | I once got good results in makling a fake 13th century sword using this process:
First etch the metal with acid long enough to show desired stucture. Anything from light pitting to heavy deterioration is possible.
The etch makes the surface raw and gives a good ground for futher corrosion.
Then take a container and cover the bottom with soil. Over this pour concentrated ammonia and flower nourishment. Put the object above this on supports so that it doesn´t contact the soil (Perhaps it´s possible to use cotton or any thing that absorbs liquid instead of soil.) Cover everyting with someting tight-fitting and put in a warm place. Over the next weeks the fumes will produce an interesting surface. (Very rusty and flaky!) You´ll need to turn the object over from time to time. Add water or more ammonia if it seems to run dry.
If you want a really ancient look you can pass the object over a sooting flame (a newly lit coalfire is exellent) for that good black patina over rust. Finish of with waxing or dipping in molten paraffin.
A less violent patination is possible with applying mild heat and saltwater or clorine beach (just don´t work too hot so you´ll ruin the temper - go just above boiling temperature). You can get a good rust in minutes this way. If you then take the worst of, the metal beneath vill look older.
Cold gun blueing will darken metal if applyed sparingly or partly scrubbed away. Scrub with something that scratches the surface somewhat. It makes it look older if used the right way.
All these methods might destroy wood or leather, of course.
Strange thing is that if you want rust you never seem to get it. The opposite it also true. |
Don't see this post as an instruction in how to make fakes to use for fraud, but a primer on how hobbyists as well as fraudsters can reach convincing results with just a few household chemicals and some time.
My sword site
Last edited by Björn Hellqvist on Sun 23 Nov, 2003 11:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joe Fults
|
| Posted: Sun 23 Nov, 2003 7:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Had not really thought about the fraud applications of the thread. I just thought the end results would make interesting home decor objects. Many really look nicer "aged" than when they started out. At least to me.
"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
|
|
|
|
|
Kirk Lee Spencer
|
| Posted: Mon 24 Nov, 2003 12:48 pm Post subject: Re: Plans for My Dracula |
|
|
| Björn Hellqvist wrote: | | Kirk Lee Spencer wrote: | | Until I can afford that beauty, I'll try to make my Dracula transform into one. |
Just let's hope it won't transform into this one... |
Now that would be scarry...
I would have to drive a stake through its heart!
Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
|
|
|
|
|
|
Patrick Fitzmartin
|
| Posted: Fri 28 Nov, 2003 7:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
Greetings Kirk, Happy belated Thanksgiving! I haven't been here for a little while. Talk about weird. You got the Magnus off of SFI right? You got it for a nice price too. I had my eye on that one but no money at the time. I still have wondered who got that one especially now that my tastes are changing. Do accept my deep forest green gloat of envy on this one. Thank you for the pics too. I have a hilt shot but have never seen a full length pic of this one. The one thing that bugs me about the new MRL version is the blade flare at the hilt. That could be shaped off though.
There is a good chance that is a Del Tin blade especially if the blade lines are real clean. When you get it apart, look for a microscopic "made in Italy" on the blade near the hilt / tang area. You may be able to find it without a take down. Every Del Tin I have has this. The crossguard may be okay but you can bet your bottom dollar the pommel is too thick. Is it peened or threaded? More than likely you will find a 7/16(?) rod welded to the tang. I am going thru this with an old 5 lobed MRL/DT Viking sword I bought. It started out around 3 1/4 lbs. I shortened the blade and grip and put it back together but it is still 3lbs. and looks too thick in the hilt fittings. Back to the workbench.  I also have a Hugin/Mugin I got real cheap off of eBay that I am redoing but have tabled until I have done more research. I have something coming soon that should help as a guideline though. Do keep me posted on this one especially if you decide to sell it ( not much chance of that, huh).  Sincerely, Patrick Fitzmartin
|
|
|
|
|
|
Patrick Fitzmartin
|
| Posted: Fri 28 Nov, 2003 3:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
Greetings Kirk, Having a bunch of paid time on my hands ( I love my "government" job! ) I did some homework on your Magnus after considering your observations of the sword. After checking Albion, Art Elwells' "Work of Art" site and the Del Tin homesite, visual conjecture strongly suggests you possess a Del Tin 5120. Albion has the best stat listing. Work of Art has the best full length shot. The Del Tin homesite has a great hilt shot, click on the pic. If it is all Del Tin, MEK will work real good on the protective coating although I would watch the leather grip. I am not sure if it is the CK 55 Crupp steel or their new steel. It is probaly peened, a round peen is older, a square peen is newer if I have interperted things right. If it is an older model you might want to replace the wooden grip as they had to improve on that. The only "edge" ( I know, one demerit for a bad pun ) that the new MRL version has is that it has dropped a 1/2 to 3/4 of a pound off of it. This a personal obsession of mine. The lighter the better. I own one antique broadsword blade with a custom made baskethilt on it. This one has been a devil to my collecting because of weight, profiles and so on. Don't buy an antique unless you're ready for it. Once you do, it becomes the standard, from appearance to handling. Anyway, do check the sites out, that way you have some bit of background on it and can decide for yourself. By the way, no offense intended, I have probaly done a fine job of talking you in to keeping this baby, haven't I. Sincerely, Patrick Fitzmartin
|
|
|
|
|
|
Patrick Fitzmartin
|
| Posted: Fri 28 Nov, 2003 4:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
Greetings Kirk, This is an after thought. You may want to study Albions Next Gen. Viking swords. They have that flat, thin look in the hilt. Your Arbedo shows this also. Considering your Magnus has a 3 1/2" grip, you will want this for handling. It makes the " pommel slide on the palm grip" work a lot better. Consider the "River Sheldt " sword. I have handled MRL's version of that one and it does work. It prevents the painful lockout from a hammer grip and the wondering " how the heck did they use these things". Sincerely, Patrick Fitzmartin
|
|
|
|
|
Tom Carr
|
| Posted: Fri 28 Nov, 2003 11:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
As far as historically correct grips, Oakeshott shows many contemporary illistrations of medieval swords gripped with the fore finger over the guard. I have found it increases my control on any single hander with a plain guard greatly. Some people have said that the Windlass Drac feels dead in the hand. I have found that when you choke up on the grip and wrap your forefinger over the guard, the darn thing comes alive. It hits where you want it to go and hits it much cleaner and harder. And the viking grip of pinkie over the pommel makes those small grips and big pommel a lot easier on the hand. I still have a hard time with the viking grip. I feel like its going to go flying even though I know it wont! Just sortta gives me the willies! I used a Tinker viking that belongs to a friend and it worked well with that one. It had a smaller grip than most modern replicas and I didnt feel so self -concious useing the pinkie wrap! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Patrick Fitzmartin
|
| Posted: Sat 29 Nov, 2003 5:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
Greetings Tom Carr, I have played with the finger over the guard technique. I do like the way that it feels. I need to work more with that one. The Viking grip does take some getting used to. I am still getting used to it. I handled a Drac or MRL's equal model at TRF this year. Not for very long though. It seemed really nice and wanted on the list. I have always liked that style from way back. Sincerely, Patrick Fitzmartin
|
|
|
|
|
Kirk Lee Spencer
|
| Posted: Tue 02 Dec, 2003 12:17 pm Post subject: Pictures of the pommel |
|
|
| Patrick Fitzmartin wrote: | | Greetings Kirk, Having a bunch of paid time on my hands ( I love my "government" job! ) I did some homework on your Magnus after considering your observations of the sword. After checking Albion, Art Elwells' "Work of Art" site and the Del Tin homesite, visual conjecture strongly suggests you possess a Del Tin 5120. Albion has the best stat listing. Work of Art has the best full length shot. The Del Tin homesite has a great hilt shot, click on the pic. If it is all Del Tin, MEK will work real good on the protective coating although I would watch the leather grip. I am not sure if it is the CK 55 Crupp steel or their new steel. It is probaly peened, a round peen is older, a square peen is newer if I have interperted things right. If it is an older model you might want to replace the wooden grip as they had to improve on that. The only "edge" ( I know, one demerit for a bad pun ) that the new MRL version has is that it has dropped a 1/2 to 3/4 of a pound off of it. This a personal obsession of mine. The lighter the better. I own one antique broadsword blade with a custom made baskethilt on it. This one has been a devil to my collecting because of weight, profiles and so on. Don't buy an antique unless you're ready for it. Once you do, it becomes the standard, from appearance to handling. Anyway, do check the sites out, that way you have some bit of background on it and can decide for yourself. By the way, no offense intended, I have probaly done a fine job of talking you in to keeping this baby, haven't I. Sincerely, Patrick Fitzmartin |
Hi Patrick...
Thanks for the legwork on the Magnus Sword. You are right that Del Tin looks identical to what I have. The Albion stats make it a little longer (1.5inches) and a little heavier (5 oz). The pommel even has that grey coloration that Del Tin's develop over the years. If your interested, here are the stats on the Magnus:
MRL King Magnus?
Measurements and Specifications
Weight: 2 pounds 14 ounces
Overall Length: 38 inches
Blade Length: 32 inches
Fullers: 25.5 inches, ½ inch wide
Guard Width: 6.5 inches
Grip and Pommel Length: 5.75 inches
Grip Length: 3.9 inches
Point of Balance: 6 inches from guard
Center of Percussion: 20.5 inches from guard
Also here are a few closeups of the pommel and hilt...
Attachment: 7.19 KB
Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
Last edited by Kirk Lee Spencer on Sat 08 May, 2004 7:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
Kirk Lee Spencer
|
| Posted: Tue 02 Dec, 2003 12:24 pm Post subject: MRL King Magnus Hilt Shots |
|
|
Here are a couple of pictures of the hilt. The grip is almost four inches--a good half inch longer than Albion's Del Tin Transition Sword. And with the size of my hands that half inch is very important. In the pictures you can also see how thick the pommel is compared to the guard. Before I do any grinding I would like to get an edge on or above look at the original...
ks
Attachment: 16.02 KB
Attachment: 10.5 KB
Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
Last edited by Kirk Lee Spencer on Sat 08 May, 2004 7:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
Kirk Lee Spencer
|
| Posted: Tue 02 Dec, 2003 12:47 pm Post subject: Back to the Arbedo |
|
|
I finally learned how to use the macro function on my camera to get the close ups of the Magnus Pommel...
So while I was out a took a few close ups of the Arbedo blade. I wanted to try to show how the mustard etch
looks up close and personal. I also wanted to show you how I got rid of that deep "Windlass India" etched
into the blade... I replaced it with the cabeza de toro.
ks
Attachment: 12.42 KB
Attachment: 7.65 KB
Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
Last edited by Kirk Lee Spencer on Sat 08 May, 2004 7:14 pm; edited 2 times in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
This is a standard topic