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Geoff Wood
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 Posted: Mon 28 Aug, 2006 8:03 am Post subject: |
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| D. Bell wrote: | I did try and read the label but I had some difficulty working out what it said, possibly because Carlos never occured to me. The fact it appears to be in spanish doesn't help either.
Translated into english my best guess is:
ARMS Eguro? of war of Charles (Carlos) V |
Eguro seems to crop up as a name.
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D. Bell
Location: New Zealand Joined: 01 May 2004
Posts: 73
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| Posted: Mon 28 Aug, 2006 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Danny Grigg wrote: | The pic of the polearm as posted by D Bell is known as a folding spear.
The Complete Encyclopedia of Arms and Weapons Edited by Leonid Tarassuk & Claude Blair
"The folding spear was a special type of spear developed in Italy in the 16th century and later found throughout Europe. The head had a conspicuously long, straight, double-edged blade, often reinforced with ribbing; at the base of the head there were two long, curved wings, with the cutting edge on the inside. The wings could be folded in toward the head, which in turn could be folded in toward the haft; and in turn the haft could be folded two or three times, which reduced the size of the weapon and made it easier to carry. This spear served as a weapon for wealthy noblemen only, not least because of the high cost of manufacture and the expensive decoration which often embellished it."Danny |
Thanks for that, I may have to into getting a copy of that book. I thought I knew a fair bit about polearms, but this just goes to show that there's always something new to learn.
Unfortuntly that is the only picture I have of the spear, which is a pity as I would like to see how long the blade actually is. It looks like the hinge could well be right in the middle of the polearm.
Danyl
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Steve Grisetti
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| Posted: Tue 29 Aug, 2006 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| D. Bell wrote: | | I found the attached photo on my computer, and immediately thought of this topic. Regrettably, this is one of the instances where I have neglected to note where the image came from, so I can't give further details... |
For what its worth, the helm looks identical to one that I saw posted elsewhere on the web, and that helm was located at the Real Armeria in Madrid.
As for the label, I can't make out the text, other than it does seem to reference Carlos V.
"...dismount thy tuck, be yare in thy preparation, for thy assailant is quick, skilful, and deadly."
- Sir Toby Belch
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Hisham Gaballa
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| Posted: Wed 30 Aug, 2006 3:52 am Post subject: |
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I googled "Reale Armeria Madrid" and found this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L89uCB2TwUk
Please ignore the bloody awful music, or better still, turn the sound off.
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Merv Cannon
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| Posted: Wed 30 Aug, 2006 9:52 am Post subject: Good film clip, hideous music |
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Yes Hisham.........Thats a great film clip...even got the face -shield in it. But that some of the worst guitar music Ive ever heard......I have been a guitarist since I was 10 years old ( a long time ago) and played in many bands but this sounds like some Spaniards plugged their guitars in and decided to kill a bull with 'em !!!!!
Merv ....... KOLR
http://www.lionrampant.com.au/
"Then let slip the dogs of war ! "......Woof !
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Hal Siegel
Industry Professional
Location: Austin, Texas Joined: 30 Aug 2003
Posts: 113
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| Posted: Wed 30 Aug, 2006 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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The face-shield and larger armor picture that D. Bell posted is in the "Armeria del Palacio Real de Madrid". I've seen it described as belonging to either Carlos V or his bodyguard. I too first noticed the armor/saved the picture beacuse of the incredibly nifty folding partisan. There's a similar partisan in the Higgins Museum.
ps. - I see some other folks have also answered this question while I was digging out my Real Armeria books 
Hal Siegel - TherionArms
http://www.therionarms.com
http://www.facebook.com/TherionArms
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Craig Porter
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| Posted: Thu 25 Sep, 2008 6:41 am Post subject: |
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From what I have seen "face shields" of the fifteenth century are a feature of Bohemian art i.e. in and around the Hussite Wars. There are several of them in works at the Convent of St Agnes (medieval art museum) in Prague. I seem to recall they did have a particular "spiritual" connotation and I am not convinced that they were a depiction of actual shields rather than merely artistic licence, the pavise being the dominant form of hand defence in that area at that time.
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Besson Francis
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| Posted: Thu 19 Feb, 2009 10:00 am Post subject: face shield with points on two sides |
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Hi All,
Can You please help me to identify this shield.
The painting (Panorama) is of the end of the XIXth (1893). It illustrates the defeat of Charles the Bold against the Swiss leagues in 1476. Louis Braun was very well informed, surrounded with museum pieces but we cannot blame him for the errors of his time.
http://www.murtenpanorama.ch/en/home/index.php
 Attachment: 38 KB
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Joey Marmorato
Location: Atlanta, GA Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Thu 19 Feb, 2009 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| D. Bell wrote: | I did try and read the label but I had some difficulty working out what it said, possibly because Carlos never occured to me. The fact it appears to be in spanish doesn't help either.
Translated into english my best guess is:
ARMS Eguro? of war of Charles (Carlos) V
I have no idea what eguro means, or even if I have the right letters. |
The sign reads: "A-151 ARNES ligero de Guerra de Carlos V," which essentially means light war harness (/suit of armor), owned by Charles V.
It can be seen on page 28 of “Armería del Palacio Real de Madrid” (Editorial Patrimonio Nacional: Madrid, 1987).
There is a description of the photo on pages 20 and 22 that essentially says:
“Figure A-151, armor for prince/infante, has a helmet (sallet) that resembles an eagle whose head makes up the visor and whose claws and legs form part of the bevor, bearing between its talons the imperial coat of arms, delicately engraved. The figure has over its coat of maille a large gorget, a type of mantle made of articulated clay (?) that terminates in a point, which is the only piece of this form known, and narrow rerebraces, which are also of notable rarity. He carries a shield for foot combat (A-152), with a fantastical face in the center (rough translation of this last sentence). With it is an articulated partisan of the Emperor Charles V. It’s composed of a long, wide, and straight sword blade in the center, with two smaller ones, one on each side, curved in the direction of the point, which open and close on demand. It is part of an incomplete harness belonging to Charles V, used in the expedition to Algiers.”
(translation mine)
Pardon the run-on sentences, but that’s how the descriptions are written in the book. It’s a bit tedious.
ARMA Free Scholar
Study Group Coordinator
ARMA Atlanta
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Sam Gordon Campbell
Location: Australia. Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 678
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| Posted: Thu 19 Feb, 2009 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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I'll take a shot.
Perhaps they are in fact shields of mercenarys or some other type of troop that doesn't have there own heraldry, and perhaps the only reason the faces are so pronounced is not that they are in fact shaped as such, but that they are painted on in a similar way to the hoplites hoplon, and therefore the only reason that they appear three dimensional is because (generally?) artists of the time struggled with the concept or perception and the like.
Member of Australia's Stoccata School of Defence since 2008.
Host of Crash Course HEMA.
Founder of The Van Dieman's Land Stage Gladiators.
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Besson Francis
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| Posted: Thu 19 Feb, 2009 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Sam Gordon Campbell wrote: | Perhaps they are in fact shields of mercenarys
they are painted on in a similar way to the hoplites hoplon |
Near half of the troops were Italian mercenarys, indeed.
It is not so much the subject which is interessant that the particular pattern of this shield.
I wonder where Braun found it ?
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Sat 27 Feb, 2010 7:52 am Post subject: |
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Thread necromancy again.
Here's an image of a face shield from a 15th century Book of Hours by the artist known as the Rohan Master.
Attachment: 99.41 KB
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Patrick Lawrence
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Marik C.S.
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| Posted: Sun 23 Oct, 2011 2:46 am Post subject: |
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You can find similar shapes - might even be roughly about the same face, maybe a mystical person? If you look up pictures of the green man they will all look more or less alike, those shield-faces look more or less alike as well so there must be a connection - on the bucklers in Paulus Kals Fechtbuch.
Europe - Where the History comes from. - Eddie Izzard
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Patrick Lawrence
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| Posted: Sun 23 Oct, 2011 2:54 am Post subject: |
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I bet your right problem some kind of common meaning. Plus might be good at messing with the other sides mind having a giant face stare at them haha. I wonder how the bigger ones were made and if there are any surviving examples?
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Patrick Lawrence
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Patrick Lawrence
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James Head
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| Posted: Thu 03 Nov, 2011 8:59 am Post subject: |
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Something tells me that many of these images are based on the same 'original', that various artists saw, studied and then recreated throughout the centuries (or recreated other images based on the first etc...).
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Patrick Lawrence
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| Posted: Fri 04 Nov, 2011 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm it is possible that could be the case. But I have the feeling its not. But need to do more research
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This is a standard topic