Vassilis Tsafatinos wrote: |
I love sword fighting very much but its not worth loosing an eye over. |
That line should be put on a practice shirt to be worn whenever you handle swords or sword like objects with a partner .
Regards
Vassilis Tsafatinos wrote: |
I love sword fighting very much but its not worth loosing an eye over. |
M. Eversberg II wrote: |
Case point: Fighting with sharps should never be done unless you fully intend to kill someone, or die trying. Thusly, it shouldn't be attempted. M. |
Christopher VaughnStrever wrote: |
Personally even at that point of being fuly armoured myself, only then would I tempt to practice with another with a sharpe sword if i had no less than 5,000 hours of training with blunt swords with that one person. |
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The last thing I want is a predictable partner....I think it works against realism to get comfortable with your partner. |
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If one were clothed from sabotons to helm in full plate steel armour combined with proper padding and full chain maile covering any areas plate did not cover, then would one practice with a sharpe sword? |
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I think it is wrong to think that training without equipment fosters some heightened level of intent or realism. Intent comes from training yourself to follow through on the blows, not pulling them. |
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With full intent you can kill with a blunt or a wooden waster even. If I don't pull a blow and follow through, a fencing mask wont save you from a fractured skull with either of those...and a sharp sword or blunt or wood, your still dead. Now don't get me wrong, I see nothing wrong with training with a wooden waster or a blunt, but I don't see why the distinction there. What matter is intent in that case I think. And the intent actually is why I see value if SCA combat...you just don't get that in other forms of sparring...as well...that generally tends to end in death...and nobody wants that. |
P. Cha wrote: |
It was the ARMA group in nor cal. They met up in pleasanton. |
Randall Pleasant wrote: |
In any case, within ARMA sharps are used for cutting practice and many of us will also practice guard transitions with sharps. I have never heard of any ARMA members doing any type of paired drills with sharps, such unsafe behavior would probably result in a very quick boot from the orgainziation. |
Greg Coffman wrote: |
That is certainly a good argument. But there is room for disagreement. The people who lived and died by these skills trained largely without head and face protection. They had to learn how to train in such a way to adequately prepare them for real combat while not harming themselves or their training partners. Now, you can counter argue that if they had resources available, like fencing masks, then they would have used them. My point is that it can be argued both ways and that both sides make good arguments. |
Greg Coffman wrote: |
That is certainly a good argument. But there is room for disagreement. The people who lived and died by these skills trained largely without head and face protection. They had to learn how to train in such a way to adequately prepare them for real combat while not harming themselves or their training partners. Now, you can counter argue that if they had resources available, like fencing masks, then they would have used them. My point is that it can be argued both ways and that both sides make good arguments. |
Alex Spreier wrote: |
Can we really say that they didn't use training masks? After all, it's not like some fencer in 18th century France woke up and said "Doh, a mask for my face would make this whole sword-fighting thing much safer!" Remember that most of the images in medieval manuscripts weren't instant, real-life images. I honestly doubt that the medieval maestri did not think about basic self-preservation during training. Yes they were training for real life-or-death situations, but that doesn't mean they would want to risk a life -ending or crippling injury during training. |
Alex Spreier wrote: |
Can we really say that they didn't use training masks? After all, it's not like some fencer in 18th century France woke up and said "Doh, a mask for my face would make this whole sword-fighting thing much safer!" Remember that most of the images in medieval manuscripts weren't instant, real-life images. I honestly doubt that the medieval maestri did not think about basic self-preservation during training. Yes they were training for real life-or-death situations, but that doesn't mean they would want to risk a life -ending or crippling injury during training. Just my two cents. |
Vincent Le Chevalier wrote: |
1) They were a lot more tolerant of minor injuries (the most common) and willing to just forget a few accidents, because their life was riskier |
Vincent Le Chevalier wrote: |
If you just do paired drills, with preset attacks and defences, or slow down, or put restrictions on timing (I think this was originally done with foils before the mask appeared), training with steel blunts becomes a lot safer. |
Vassilis Tsafatinos wrote: |
I was told that John Clements half-sworded a sharp sword into his own leg at a demo. He then refused medical attention until the end of the demo. I was told he carried on the demo soaked in his own blood. |
Greg Coffman wrote: | ||
But that isn't really training for combat then, is it? And the foil come after these skill were no longer used for actual combat on or off the battlefield. |
D. Austin wrote: |
I know it's off the original topic, but while we're talking about fencing masks, here's a 16th century "tournament helm" from the State Hermitage Museum. If this sort of thing was used with wooden batons, not sharp swords, it would seem to have obvious similarities to SCA fighting. |
Randall Pleasant wrote: | ||
Yes, about 10 years ago John Clements did hit his leg with the point of a sharp sword during a demo, it was a lesson well learned by him and passed on to his students. Yes, John did wait until after he completed the demo to have his leg checked out. And yes, the cut did bleed but John was not "soaked" in blood. Think about it, when people are soaked in their own blood they are usually in shock and losing consciousness, not doing demos. ;) Ran Pleasant ARMA DFW |
P. Cha wrote: |
Why just a sharp? With full intent you can kill with a blunt or a wooden waster even. If I don't pull a blow and follow through, a fencing mask wont save you from a fractured skull with either of those...and a sharp sword or blunt or wood, your still dead. Now don't get me wrong, I see nothing wrong with training with a wooden waster or a blunt, but I don't see why the distinction there. What matter is intent in that case I think. And the intent actually is why I see value if SCA combat...you just don't get that in other forms of sparring...as well...that generally tends to end in death...and nobody wants that. |