My idea of a Spadroon is that it have slender but single edged blade about 31 to 33 inches, and that the hilt is composed with some sort of simple d-guard or Smallsword/boatshell hilt. My 1786 small sword has some good "back" to it and it would not feel good getting thwacked on the temple with it.. My 1796 model hasnt arrived yet so i'll put out a report when it shows up.
I thought that 18th cen. foil was originated as an extension of 18th century smallsword. It was considered a gentlemanly accomplishment and a way to stay fit. It was also rather stately in its performance. For one reason, there were no masks, so an imposed right of way kept you from being foined in the eye. Also the torso only targeting of foil was considered practice for smallsword because the vital organs are all in the torso. As well as the classic thrust to the heart. The small sword having a small blade makes targeting vital parts important to stop/kill an opponent. Also stabbing people in the face or eye in a duel was considered poor taste. (Even though it happened.) So foil was still a practice to prepare for the killing. Foil was also done indoors. Epee originates as we move on to (hopefully) non lethal duels to first blood. As the 19cen. dawns this new style turns into epee, essentially. It is practiced outdoors. Meanwhile foil turns into it own practice. Sort of the "Do" of fencing as opposed to the "Jitsu" of Epee. As for Spadroon, I think it did have a slight civilan craze for a little bit. People were teaching it, all things military were kind of fashionable. It is said that italian dueling sabre technique comes from the Spadroon craze and hence modern sabre.

Carl, I cant get on those sites from here for some reason, though I think Ive seen them before. Has anyone been able to get on the American Historical Fighting Arts site? They may have some cool photos of their members using Spadroon technique.

Thanks for the reply. However, I am pretty sure thata spadroon can be double edged, as both Donald McBane and Henry Angelo desribe a spadroon as having two edges in their treatises.

Can you find some double edged spadroon pics for us?

I guess I always thought of a spadroon as a slender backsword. Here is a little summary of Mcbane's Backsword tecnique:

3- McBane's System Of Backsword- The backsword shown in McBane's manual is a basket-hilted weapon of the Highland type. The backsword and the broadsword are used almost identically. The right foot is straight forward. The left foot is at a right angle. The heels are in-line with each other. The body is at an angle to the enemy. The left hand is held up near the neck as an auxiliary defense. Attacks are made on the lunge. Leg attacks are avoided by "shifting" or "slipping" the leg, rather than by parrying. Thrusts can be avoided with a maneuver called "avolting", where the body is moved out of the line of attack. The inside, outside, medium, hanging and St. George's ("cross") guards are used. The medium guard is lowered to point at the enemy as in the modern foil fencing on-guard stance, and the half-hanging guards are included within the hanging guard. It is likely that all these guards were in use by this period.

Here is a mortuary hilted backsword.

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Spadroon is a slang term not a precise terminology. The British army regs for both the 86 and 96 describe the blade as "made to cut and thrust".

You get these swords both with backsword and slender double edged blades. You also get the 1st Foot version of the 1796 Infantry sword with a broadsword blade.

I would like to see a First Foot version of the 1796 Model. Can you send some pics?

Very Nice!!!! Are they both yours?! How does the broadsword bladed spadroon handle?

My 1796 hasnt arrived yet curses. The seller waited about 4-5 days to mail it which sort of annoyed me for the postage I paid. But he said the grip, hilt and blade were all tight and that the folding guard stayed fixed in both positions. I guess we'll see.

I watched a dvd of Sharpe, episode 13 and it looked like one of the villains was doing Spadroon work. It looked a lot like modern sabre fencing with more point work.

I would think the classicfication of a spadroon is certainly a grey area. Like most swords, there are always variances in its construction; blade and hilt elements. From what I have read, the spadroon is a flatter, edged smallsword. Of course, a triangular smallsword could have edges... I think it varies. What a spadroon is not is a broadsword/backsword/heavy military sword. A Lonnergan in his "Fencer's Guide", 1771, goes from smallsword to backsword/broadsword to spadroon, combining a thrust weapon with a (conceived as) mainly cutting weapon. I believe some masters in the 18th century called the spadroon cut-and-thrust generically. I would look at McBane...
One more thing and then I'll shut up. Modern foil- as in "Olympic-electric" does come from the classical fencing of the 19th century. But it does not come from the epee du combat. The modern epee comes from the epee du combat. In the confusing and unestimated tangle of modern fencing history (roughly 1750-1950, ish), one must consider the two schools of classical fencing.
In France, the development of the French system of smallsword led to the development of what we know as the "modern' foil (not electric, just standard or dry or whatever you want to call it), as opposed to the earlier blunted and rebated practice weapons. Foil fencing, the practice of the smallsword, was very similar to actual combat, with some arbitrary and conventional devices such as elevating the arm to avoid hitting the opponent in the face while fencing. The fencing mask was introduced, and while it caused some consternation among more conservative fencers/duelists, it became sensible to wear one for definite safety. However, this let fencers have more freedom, and it didn't take long to realize you could get away with poor technique that you wouldn't ever attempt in a duel. This "sportification" of the foil, turning from its initial purpose, along with the smallsword dying out as a dueling weapon by roughly the 1830's, led to a difference between swordplay in the duel and in the salle d'armes. By the 1850's, there was a great debate between whether or not foil play was suffecient enough training for the duel. Bazancourt's Secrets of the Swordis a good look at that argument. It is out of this the modern epee comes. The 19th century dueling sword, in France, is similar to a modern (again, standard) epee, only with a slightly smaller guard, and obviously, a sharp blade.The practice weapon for the dueling sword was alomost exaclty like its dueling counterpart, excepting the sharp tip. (Most were fitted with a single or three-pronged point d'arret. Foil of course continued to be taught, mostly as an academic training tool for learning the rudiments of fencing. But in France the use of the foil and the training sword for the duel were different weapons.
In Italy, the dueling sword hadn't really changed since the end of the 17th century. Most Italian dueling swords in the 1700's and early 1800's were simply scaled down, cup-hilt rapiers. Many had knuckle guards and longer quillons that extended well over the guard. In Northern Italy, a fusion of French and Italian methods was taught due to several reasons, one being the Napoleonic wars and Italy's constant foreign occupation. In the southern part of Italy, especially Naples, a "pure" Italian system was taught, along with the sword and dagger into at least into the early 1800's, as shown in Angelo's treatise. But the dueling sword and the practice sword for the duel were similar enough that a change of blades would suffice for a "foil" or a "sword". So by the time the French were using the foil and the "epee du salle", the Italians were still using essentially the same weapon that they had been since the turn of the 17th century. The main differences were in the length, weight, and consequently size of the weapon. Masaniello Parise's treatise, written in the 1880's (I think), is essentially Neapolitan epee fencing. The competitions of the late 19th century led to the "modern" Italian epee, developed by the Greco brothers. The Italian dueling sabre system is an adjusted and refined system of military sabre-play suited for a lighter weapon. European military sabre systems are based manly off a fusion of elements of Eastern European sabre fighting as well as the older systems of swordplay from Western Europe, such as the messer and even the backsword. However, I do not think that the spadroon has anything to do with influencing the sciabola di terrano.

That's my view on it-

Joshua Keatley.

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Well I think we mostly agree then. However I did read in two different enyclopedias (one on weapons and one on fencing) How the Spadroon was the for runner of "modern' fencing sabre technique. Unfortunately, neither one stated how.

Here is a photo of a French spadroon from the year 1790. It has a brass stirrup hilt with an octagonal section and a horizontally-fluted pommel with a button. The hand-carved, vertically-fluted ebony grip has a brass base ferrule. The unmarked 31 3/4" straight single-edged blade has a single full length fuller. Leather blade washer. The blade has very light pitting overall. No scabbard. Overall length 37".

http://www.thetf.net/uploads/maverick09/2008-...adroon.JPG

Looks more English to me, ricasso block is too short for a typically french spadroon blade

I recognize that one. It was one that really motivated me on spadroons a couple of years ago. It must still be listed on one of the collective antique sites, as it is long gone from his site listings proper. Jonathan had forwarded me a nice catalog page for French spadroons when I got that hippocampus spadroon d' anglais piece.
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Cheers

GC

That Hippocanthus sword is beautiful! I am currently angling with someone who has a NCO spadroon with the solid bilopate guard. It has a very handsome burnished non-floral guard. And it looks like chain on the grip.

Here is a very nice Spadroon with scabbard that escaped me by a few bucks.......Ah well. The spring/catch worked perfectly too. Next Time!

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