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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jan, 2012 9:26 pm    Post subject: Re: FULL METAL JOUSTING?         Reply with quote

Peter Cox wrote:
Hello all, I am new to this site and I'm wondering if anyone knows who designed the armor for FULL METAL JOUSTING? There is a person on the Discovery forum by the name of AB the Hammer who claims he is a blacksmith and he thinks the armor is very poorly designed and is an embarrassment. and he also thinks people will get hurt cause of the armor. Can anyone please let me know if you know who designed the armor and also is the armor safe?

Thank you Peter


From http://www.anshelmarms.com/ :

Anshelm Arms is proud to be the armory that created all of the man AND horse armor for the TV reality show: FULL METAL JOUSTING.

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Peter Cox




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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jan, 2012 9:53 pm    Post subject: Re: FULL METAL JOUSTING?         Reply with quote

Chad Arnow wrote:
Peter Cox wrote:
Hello all, I am new to this site and I'm wondering if anyone knows who designed the armor for FULL METAL JOUSTING? There is a person on the Discovery forum by the name of AB the Hammer who claims he is a blacksmith and he thinks the armor is very poorly designed and is an embarrassment. and he also thinks people will get hurt cause of the armor. Can anyone please let me know if you know who designed the armor and also is the armor safe?

Thank you Peter


From http://www.anshelmarms.com/ :

Anshelm Arms is proud to be the armory that created all of the man AND horse armor for the TV reality show: FULL METAL JOUSTING.


Hi Chad, thanks for that but I know they built the armor but did they also do the designs for them?

I presumed the people who build it would have designed it but the guy AB says that is not so.

And by the way from what I have seen I think the armor is great.

Thanks again Peter
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Fri 13 Jan, 2012 6:58 am    Post subject: Re: FULL METAL JOUSTING?         Reply with quote

Peter Cox wrote:
Hi Chad, thanks for that but I know they built the armor but did they also do the designs for them?

I presumed the people who build it would have designed it but the guy AB says that is not so.

And by the way from what I have seen I think the armor is great.

Thanks again Peter


Peter,
You now have all the info I have. Happy Because Anshelm uses the term "created" that makes me think they had a hand in the design process. If someone else designed it entirely "made" might be a better term. However, they could simply be using imprecise language. I suspect that as a TV show, someone from the show had at least a little (and possibly a lot) of design input. But I'm just speculating.

In the same way Jody Samson made, but didn't design, the Conan swords, I suspect a production designer designed the armour to have a certain look.

Happy

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Michele Hansen




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PostPosted: Fri 13 Jan, 2012 3:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Joshua Anthony wrote:
I put my application in. God help me:-)


Just wishing you, and all the others here that are auditioning, the best of luck.

I am soooo happy that this sport is finally coming to the USA. For years some dorks in office considered it "too dangerous." This while it thrived in Europe, and other continents.

Thank you, all you international Pro Jousters for proving the legitimacy of, and helping bring this sport to the USA. I hope to see this as a spring-board for international, individual and team competition.

I hope I live long enough to see it in the Olympic Games.

Best of luck to all! I will be watching from the gallery. I have a feeling it will not open to women for several decades.

God Dang! Am I thrilled! Jousting is finally getting out of Show Busines in the USA! Keep it real, and honest. We don't want another sport such as World Wide Wresting forced to add the term "Entertainment" to it's title.

Il est apelée de Montfort. Il est el Mond, et si est fort. Si ad grant chevalrie; Je vois et je m’ acort. Il eime le droit, et het le tort. Si avera le mestrie!
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Sam Gordon Campbell




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PostPosted: Sat 11 Feb, 2012 9:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hey hey, how it going?
I am amazed at what a coat of paint can do. Check out the bore and after shots at Anshelmarms eh? Interesting stuff.
And the website is up and running which is pretty neat.

A Knyght ther was, and that a worthy man,/ That fro the tyme that he first bigan/ To riden out, he loved chivalrie,/ Trouthe and honour, fredom and curteisie./ ... He was a verray parfit gentil knyght./ But for to tellen yow of his array,/ His hors weren goode, but he was nat gay./ Of fustian he wered a gypoun,/ Al bismotered with his habergeoun;/ For he was late ycome from his viage,/ And wente for to doon his pilgrymage.
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Jonathon Hanson




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PostPosted: Mon 13 Feb, 2012 7:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

My thoughts on the show's first episode:

The good: The show seems very well put together, and they obviously got a higher budget than knights of mayhem. They go just enough into the backgrounds of the contestants, and Shane does an excellent job at explaining the finer points of jousting. The training sequences are also a refreshing break from the jousting action. It's a competition and not just a reality show, and I like that. I also appreciate that Mike will be able to stick around and train as well, though I also think this is a necessity due to the need of the hosts to cover their butts over the incomprehensible elimination process.

The bad: I think that they should have used the scoring system from Knights of Mayhem, just giving one point for contacts I think rewards lucky lance breaks too much over consistency. With the KoM rules, Mike would have won his match and not the black team contestant. Mike actually hit the target more often than his opponent, but the scoring system rewarded the luck of Black's representative. Also, I think it's unfair to be picked for an elimination match just at the whims of the coaches. It makes no sense because the jouster with the least ability should be eliminated first. Mike seemed to be pretty good, and like I mentioned he would have actually won under different rules. I think Mike got a bad break here and I do feel bad for him. Oh, and no Black Knight Patrick Lambke was something that I definitely missed as well. Finally, I wish the armor looked just a little bit more historical.

Overall, a very compelling show that I'll be sure to watch every week! It's not perfect, but it's difficult to launch a new IP on TV and I'll give it time to grow. I'm pretty sure that the show will get better as the season goes on!
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Chris Arrington




PostPosted: Thu 15 Mar, 2012 9:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

So is anyone watching the show? I haven't been able to read this board for the last 6 months or so, and I was wondering what the opinions were.

IMO, so far its not too bad. Entertaining, and at least respectable in comparison to other such shows like "Top Shot".

My biggest problem is the "rockstar look" armour. And is it just me, or does it fit really poorly on most of the contestants? My 3/4 suit of plate for the SCA, which I mostly made for myself, fits better and has less gaps. I just keep waiting on a lance deflecting into those huge gaps between the pauldrons and the breast plates.

If you saw this weeks show, the "next week" preview shows that there will be two major injuries (or at least the hype of potential serious injuries) in the next show.

In regards to the earlier discussion on horses, my wife's show horse is a 16.2 hand Saddlebred Gelding, who I figure could handle the weight of me (245lbs+armour). And our barn has a 18 hand Saddlebred Gelding who would have no problem whatsoever and have a LOT of speed. But I do see the reasoning on the Drafts/Draft Crosses.
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Ian S LaSpina




PostPosted: Thu 15 Mar, 2012 3:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've been watching the show. It's way better in my opinion than Knights of Mayhem. I like that the inter-personal drama is very much toned down and kept to a minimum on Full Metal Jousting. The training sequences are interesting to watch and there's been some pretty good matches so far.

I don't dig the modern looking armor, but I get why the did it. They're trying to bridge the gap between the history-geek crowd, of which I'm proudly a member, and the sports crowd. So the armor looks more modern, is painted in team colors, and even has the knight's name on the back like a sports jersey. I can look past that. The important things for me are that it's not all about personality conflict like Knights of Mayhem. People seem to be a lot more respectful of one another and the coaches.

I also like how they handle the horsemanship aspect in this show. I was happy with how they handled the guy who struck the horse in the last show. There should be no tolerance for garbage like that. There seems to be more of a respect in general for their 'equine partners' in this show than in Knights of Mayhem.

Overall, sure there's some room for improvement, but I'm definitely enjoying Full Metal Jousting!

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Ed Toton




PostPosted: Fri 16 Mar, 2012 11:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Agreed, I'm liking this much better than Knights of Mayhem. Perhaps my biggest disappointment with the show is how much of a clichéd reality show format they're using.

But I like the fact that they're spending significant amounts of time on the training aspects, and discussing the horsemanship as well.

As Ian pointed out, the armor attempts to appeal to a modern audience, while retaining the historical function. But my guess is that they armor was all made in one size, so it fits everyone a little differently, if not equally poorly. It looks to me like every single one of them wear the pauldrons too low as well, which leads me to believe some of it could be corrected with better strapping and fitting.

On the whole I'm enjoying it, even if it is a typical formulaic reality show.

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Joe Fults




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PostPosted: Fri 16 Mar, 2012 6:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Refreshing compared to the KoM in that these guys all seem to behave like professionals instead of immature and insecure peacocks. I find FMJ all much more watchable and I think the armor is even tolerable in that they don't seem to be trying to pretend that they're all *knights* and what not. To me they come across as modern professional athletes, or at least as semi-professional athletes, who are working hard to get better at their craft and win a competition.
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Phillip Oliver




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PostPosted: Fri 16 Mar, 2012 7:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Honestly, I can say that I will pray to what ever god will hear me that this show goes away quickly. Not only do they have the propensity to exaggerate and overstate every little nuance and fact about the sport, but as it will be made in America, it will be like Jersey Shore meets Ultimate Fighter meets Survivor. There will be so much contrived, semi-scripted drama and bullshit that it will soon loose any audience it had that was interested in the actual art of Jousting. I cannot stand shows like this.
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Matthew Stagmer




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PostPosted: Sat 17 Mar, 2012 6:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

We were contacted to do the armor and they wanted to pay almost nothing for it. Don't believe that the reason for this awfull armor is to bridge any gap. It is simple. They didn't want to pay for correctly formed armor and that is the only reason the armor on this show looks the way it does.
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Lloyd Clark




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PostPosted: Mon 19 Mar, 2012 10:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Phillip Oliver wrote:
Honestly, I can say that I will pray to what ever god will hear me that this show goes away quickly. Not only do they have the propensity to exaggerate and overstate every little nuance and fact about the sport, but as it will be made in America, it will be like Jersey Shore meets Ultimate Fighter meets Survivor. There will be so much contrived, semi-scripted drama and bullshit that it will soon loose any audience it had that was interested in the actual art of Jousting. I cannot stand shows like this.


Some of us have been killing ourselves for nearly 30 years trying to get attention to the SPORT of jousting. Shows like KOM and FMJ are finally bringing the fact that there is a sport of jousting to the mainstream. Whether this fits within your meme of what jousting should be is really a non-point. There is a huge argument going on between purists, who prefer completely historically accurate recreations, and sport jousters, who want this to be a mainstream, extreme sport. There is a general fear, which may or may not be valid, among the purists that if sport jousting were to become popular the already small fan base may grow smaller and companies that currently help out by sponsoring these events may move on to the more popular sport side. (This also goes for the fight on what style of jousting should be considered "pro")

IMHO, there is, and always will be, room for both historical and sport; and among sport, that it is possible to include multiple forms of jousting within a single, team-oriented, competition. But, that is a fight for another board.

KOM suffered from poor editing decisions that neither Charlie, or any other jouster, on the show had control of. The editors seemed to be going out of their way to make Charlie look like thug. Now, Charlie does have a very "outgoing" and over-the-top personality, but did they mention all of the free school shows and military shows to raise money for the Wounded Warrior Project that KOM puts on each year? Hell no. The editors wanted backstage dirt, showing that the guys really dislike each other and their main motivation is to hurt another guy. Do you really think that if you continually hurt your teammates, that you will have sufficient people to do your already contracted for shows and tournaments? Charlie got a bad rap from that show that he really didn't deserve.

The FMJ folks are using the a proven paradigm for successful reality television (and from what I have heard from my friends that worked on the show, they have really edited a great deal of the "drama" out). Their production crew spent significantly more to produce the show (they also had the advantage of seeing the public feedback on KOM, which I am sure influenced their editing choices) and had a much greater budget to provide pretty much anything and everything they needed to advance their vision of jousting.

KOM? If you look, it is pretty much just a few guys with handhelds and a lot of Pro Go cameras. So don't dump on the troupe - the guys at KOM were doing what the could to get the sport some extremely vital exposure and their viewership went up each week ending up with nearly 3 million viewers.

FMJ's numbers are also going up. What does this say? Well, it is very possible that we might be seeing competitive sport jousting on mainstream sports networks. Trust me, that is the goal that all of us have been shooting for, well, at least on the sport side. I would much rather joust on ESPN or FUEL TV than on National Geographic or the History Channel and I'm pretty sure most of my fellow jousters would agree.

Alright, I'll get off my soapbox. I knew that the mainstream "historical" crowd would not take well to these shows. Hell, I figured that the mainstream Ren Faire goers wouldn't as well (no fake blood and death). But, that's okay. I would much rather have them appeal to boxing, MMA, Football, and Rugby fans - because expanding the fan base to those demographics will ensure that the sport I love will continue, and we won't be relegated once again to carny-like Ren Faire sideshows.

Cheers,

Lloyd Clark
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Glen A Cleeton




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PostPosted: Mon 19 Mar, 2012 11:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have to admit that while I watched only a couple of the Mayhem series, FMJ has caught a good bit more of my attention than I thought it would. The advances in practice and form are becoming apparent and it is interesting to me that some of the theatrical jousters with years of practice appear to struggle with some of the basics.

There are recaps of the episodes being posted up on a site and I believe most of the video is posted online as well.
http://www.medievalarchives.com/

One curious question of my own is why the horse are not being armoured during practice with lances. I did not a mention of break away lances for practice but the horses are not protected at all in those practices.

Cheers

GC
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Ian S LaSpina




PostPosted: Mon 19 Mar, 2012 1:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Lloyd Clark wrote:

KOM? If you look, it is pretty much just a few guys with handhelds and a lot of Pro Go cameras. So don't dump on the troupe - the guys at KOM were doing what the could to get the sport some extremely vital exposure and their viewership went up each week ending up with nearly 3 million viewers.


Lloyd, do you know if the KoM guys are going to revamp the formula for the show for next season? I would love to see the show improve over time and have the Spike guys expose us to the sport more than the garbage that people are complaining about.

Lloyd Clark wrote:

Alright, I'll get off my soapbox. I knew that the mainstream "historical" crowd would not take well to these shows. Hell, I figured that the mainstream Ren Faire goers wouldn't as well (no fake blood and death). But, that's okay. I would much rather have them appeal to boxing, MMA, Football, and Rugby fans - because expanding the fan base to those demographics will ensure that the sport I love will continue, and we won't be relegated once again to carny-like Ren Faire sideshows.


On this point, I think there's a middle ground of 'historical' crowd folks who can also appreciate this type of jousting. I used to count myself amongst the 'if it's not historical it's not for me crowd,' and to be honest, Knights of Mayhem kind of reinforced that a little bit, but I admit that Full Metal Jousting has really made me eat my words on this point. I fully understand what you're saying about the way KOM was edited and I trust you that the guys aren't really like what the show made them out to be. I hope that the KOM producers learn from the experience and make some huge improvements for the future.

The way FMJ handled things with regard to respect for one another, the coaches, safety of the competitors, and of course safety for the horses has really made the 'sport' version of jousting appeal to me a lot more. It was handled in such a professional way, that it really portrayed jousting as a potential professional sport for the mainstream. The more I learn about what it really is, the more I like it. While I'll always be a history geek and will always love to see things portrayed with historical accuracy, I too would love to see jousting on ESPN. How cool would that be? Pretty damn cool if you ask me! And if you were a spectator at a tournament in the 13th/14th/15th century, you were there for the sport of it and the competition. That's what you guys are trying to bring back!

FMJ's doing it right. They've structured the sport in a way (teams, team armor, real competition and a ruleset that keeps it exciting to the last pass), that gives it real viability for a mainstream sport. Sure not everyone will be happy, and a lot of people will turn their noses up at it for what may amount to no real rational reason, but if it's not someone's cup of tea, they don't have to watch it. I like my living history, and I can still like my sport jousting as well! More power to you guys Lloyd, I really hope it works out!

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Sean O Stevens




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PostPosted: Mon 19 Mar, 2012 5:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have to admit... I thought KoM was a train wreak and from the promos I was seeing, I assumed that FMJ was going to be even worse.

I was wrong.

My apologies to Mr. Clark... but Charlie Andrews comes off very poorly to me. His attitude and some of the things he has done and said just do not sit well with me. That plus the direction they went with the show made KoM just really, really awful to me.

FMJ, on the other hand... has proven very entertaining and I think they really did it right. It is obvious they had a much higher budget for this deal... and production value is far and away better. However.... turning it into a true competition with teams and the training involved truly helps to build it as a sport. The respect shown in competition and the treatment of the horses... bravo.

I expected to really hate it... as I did with KoM... but I find I enjoy the show quite a lot and have not missed an episode.

Props to everyone involved... I always enjoy being proven wrong and gaining a new interest in something.
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Brandt Giese




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PostPosted: Mon 19 Mar, 2012 8:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Anyone else notice that in last night's episode the horses were without armour during the practice jousts but not during the competition? Looks like to me if a guys crotch can get hit so too can a horse loose an eye.
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Glen A Cleeton




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PostPosted: Mon 19 Mar, 2012 8:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Brandt Giese wrote:
Anyone else notice that in last night's episode the horses were without armour during the practice jousts but not during the competition? Looks like to me if a guys crotch can get hit so too can a horse loose an eye.


I have noticed this in all the episodes and practice. Mentioned it above ^^ myself out of curiousity and concern. The lances are described as break waya for the practice but two groin injuries certainly does make one wonder about the horse armour.

Cheers

GC
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Phil D.




PostPosted: Mon 19 Mar, 2012 8:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I too have enjoyed this show quite a bit (have been watching since day one)..

I too would have thought that both horses and crotches would be better protected.I have plenty of scars on my head and face from sports but a permanent testicular rearrangement is something that I would certainly despise...not to mention the pain involved.

Still a great show in my book.I especially like the fact that they take such a diverse group of folks to compete and are able to mold them into competent jousters.

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Brandt Giese




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PostPosted: Mon 19 Mar, 2012 8:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

My post earlier tonight was a bit unclear. During practice no armour on the horse, no head gear, no eye protection. During tournament head and eye protection was worn. Is the armour just for show? Are the horses any less likely to get hurt during practice?
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