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Posts: 356 Location: Roanoke, Virginia

Thu 03 May, 2012 3:54 am

Anyone have any first hand experience with these dirks?

I am trying to help a friend with his Jacobite kit. He has limited funds, but needs a dirk. I was looking at these two as candidates for him, but have not seen either on first hand.

Anyone have experience with either of these dirks?

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This one is offered at By The Sword and is very reasonably priced at about $80.

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This dirk is the higher priced one. The grip also seems quite long at 7". However, the overall appearance seems nice.

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Lin Robinson

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Posts: 1,241 Location: NC

Sun 06 May, 2012 12:43 pm

Chris...

Where did you find those dirks? I have been looking for something similar. Unfortunately I do not have any experience with them, however I might like to.

OOPS...just noticed the caption under the photos. I will dig to see what I can find out about them.

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Ryan S.

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Posts: 355 Location: Germany

Sun 06 May, 2012 3:53 pm

the knife and fork was not part of the dirk till long after the Culloden

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Lin Robinson

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Posts: 1,241 Location: NC

Sun 06 May, 2012 7:15 pm

Ryan S. wrote:

the knife and fork was not part of the dirk till long after the Culloden

Not really. There are quite a few Jacobite era and earlier dirks which had provision for one or more knives in the sheath in addition to the dirk and some were known to be equipped with forks and even spoons. A couple of these are pictured in The Swords and the Sorrows and other books as well. They may not have been as ubiquitious as those in 19th c. officer's dirks but there were some with knives and forks in an earlier age.

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Jack W. Englund

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Posts: 186 Location: WA State

Mon 07 May, 2012 1:56 pm

Also note , instead of the fork - a pick was often carried

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Ryan S.

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Posts: 355 Location: Germany

Mon 07 May, 2012 2:06 pm

your right, after I posted, I read something to that extent. I did read somewhere that the fork and knife were a Victorian addition, maybe that was referring just to military issue though.

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Jack W. Englund

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Posts: 186 Location: WA State

Mon 07 May, 2012 3:19 pm

Ryan S. wrote:

your right, after I posted, I read something to that extent. I did read somewhere that the fork and knife were a Victorian addition, maybe that was referring just to military issue though.

The sm. knife pre dated "Victoria" & Jacobite IMO

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Lin Robinson

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Posts: 1,241 Location: NC

Mon 07 May, 2012 7:23 pm

Ryan S. wrote:

your right, after I posted, I read something to that extent. I did read somewhere that the fork and knife were a Victorian addition, maybe that was referring just to military issue though.

That particluar work may have been referring to the fork as the addition because "by knives" were an integral part of many pre-Jacobite dirks. The knife and fork, along with oddly-shaped grips and cairngorn or amethyst stones in pommels of dirks and the knives and forks were very popular from Victorian times onward. Unfortunately all the changes to the grips of the dirks made during that era made them much less efficient as weapons and they became ornaments instead of tools. The same thing happened to the Scottish all-metal pistol which degenerated into a mere ornament - although they could be fired with powder and ball if the owner wished to do so. Moreover the pistols of the 19th century, while they adhered to the general form of the originals, lacked the grace and quality of the front-rank Highlander's dag.

In general the Victorian era's excesses certainly distorted to some extent the garb and accessories of the ancient Highlander. Some items, like long horsehair sporrans, continue to be worn, especially by pipe band members and one has to admit that they look pretty good swaying as the band marches.

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