The Mongoliad Xa by Angus Trim -- myArmoury.com

Tom Kinder · Posted: Tue 03 Apr, 2012 10:15 pm Post subject: The Mongoliad Xa by Angus Trim

stats:
overall length: 39"
blade length: 32 1/4"
blade width at cross: 2"
grip length: 4 1/2"
POB: 4 3/4"
weight: 2 lbs 3 oz

this sword is really special in many ways and I've been waiting for this one some time now. first of all this sword is the one used by Neal Stephenson, Greg Bear, Mark Teppo and E.D. deBirmingham, Erik Bear, Joe Brassey and the rest of writing team of the soon-to-be-released novel franchise The Mongoliad - The foreworld saga (check it out at Amazon.com) to represent the sword one of the main characters of the the Mongoliad carried. This sword was also photographed with some others by the production team and may appear in Mongoliad art some time in the future.

ok so as cool as it is that this is one of the Mongoliad swords, there's still more that makes it very cool.
this sword is a stepping stone that bridges the gap between what Gus' swords used to be and what they will become in the near future. Gus has begun using different grinding and finishing techniques to produce higher quality swords and this is the start of it all. although there is still a very slight rise in the center of the blade that almost makes a ridge this sword is arguably lenticular its entire length and has greatly improved geometry over Gus' previous swords. the main blade bevel curves very smoothly into the edge without forming any secondary beveling at all. the finish is a high gloss that still shows some of the coarser base finish underneath. this is a slight polishing flaw but it is still very beautiful and interesting looking. it saves the blade from being a plain flat mirror. I like it.

the fit of the guard to the blade is far better and tighter than the vast majority of Gus swords in the past.
Gus has made a grip that blends and flows much better with the whole sword.
it is permanently assembled using a mechanical peen.

it has undergone a new heat treat method Gus had been working on for some time now. in the past, ATrim swords have always been about 52 rc hardness all the way through. this sword is 60 rc on the edges and selectively tempered back to 48 in the center. this creates a VERY hard edge and a springy (not soft) center which in my opinion makes it superior to the standard ATrim sword. after meeting this sword and feeling how hard the edges are I find myself wondering about a lot of the katana I have had that claimed to be 60 rc on the edge. I don't think they were; not if this is 60. Gus has had to totally change the way he works with these swords because of the hardness of the blade.

the fittings have been heat blued.

Asking $575 + shipping

Dorian B. · Posted: Tue 03 Apr, 2012 10:34 pm Post subject:

That sword is a beauty. I have to admit that when I first read this topic, I thought " The Mongloid is an awful name!"

Josh S

I actually saw this post when it was first made, but haven't had the opportunity to really reply to it until now. Before continuing, I just want to say: nicely done! The sorts of changes your company is taking can only be for the better. It seems to have always filled a niche between "good" and "excellent;" I, for one, am glad to see that you guys are moving in the direction of excellent rather than just good.

J. Hargis · Posted: Sat 19 May, 2012 10:19 am Post subject:

Sorry to be the naysayer here, but this sword and much of what I see from Atrim looks and apparently is very machined, to the point of sterility and lack of historical accuracy, IMO.

" ... it is permanently assembled using a mechanical peen." ...and it certainly looks like it.

While the strength and performance of this sword is not in doubt, it looks mass produced and lacking in subtle beauty when compared to a historical equivalent.

The various techniques used are interesting unto themselves, but the processes do not make for a great piece of historical reproduction.

If the goal was to make something that has the general shape and size of an Oakeshott classification using ahistorical processses, then that's what Atrim has done and there's nothing wrong with that. But for me, it looks cold as ice.

Jon

Luka Borscak · Posted: Sat 19 May, 2012 3:30 pm Post subject:

Also it's important to know that what Tom calls "mechanical peen" is a nut with a part peened over the top of the pommel, so it's not historically accurate end of the tang peened over the pommel. It just looks like it's peened.

Josh S · Posted: Sat 19 May, 2012 4:23 pm Post subject:

Hargis, I can see your point. Particularly in regards to the hilt components - I think the blade itself, though still far from ideal-looking, is fine. The pommel does look quitelifeless, though. However, you may want to also look at this thread if you haven't already, as it seems to show the results of a better finishing process, which, as noted in the thread, is still being perfected: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=25651

Luka, T&T is taking up actual peening processes in the future. See http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=24747

Brandt Giese · Posted: Sun 20 May, 2012 5:08 pm Post subject:

These swords are an excellent value and are available with a peened pommel. They are also available without this finish and with some work you can remove the machined look. I do not think there is a better product available at this price point. They are also a great alternative for those who do not want to cut with their higher end swords and as such should be compared to other like swords.

J. Hargis · Posted: Sun 20 May, 2012 9:45 pm Post subject:

Brandt Giese · Posted: Mon 21 May, 2012 5:06 pm Post subject:

last I looked the Tried and trues were about 450.00 and most Arms and Armor swords were above 650.00 guess I need to look again.

Mike Capanelli · Posted: Mon 21 May, 2012 5:35 pm Post subject:

J. Hargis · Posted: Mon 21 May, 2012 6:46 pm Post subject:

Lukas MG · Posted: Tue 22 May, 2012 6:40 am Post subject:

To be honest, I'm not the biggest fan of Atrims, especially not of this model (never been a fan of glossy blades and can't really warm up to the fittings either) but I feel I have to defend them a bit here. I don't intend to turn this into a A&A vs Atrim thread but I do have a few things to say.

While the A&A swords do look less machined, I have found them to be quite sloppily done. Very wavy blades, no crisp ridges, oversized guard slot among other things.
Don't know, guess that's close to many medieval swords and wouldn't have been much of a problem back in period but compared to the crisp lines and bevels on Atrims and Albions, it just looks bad, no other way to put it.

I personally would take an ATrim over A&A any day. Performance wise there's no way A&A outperforms ATrims and regarding looks, I see a very definite edge towards ATrims as far as cleanliness and precision goes. A&A offers some beautiful complex hilt components though.

When quoting Oakeshott, keep in mind that when he was alive and capable of making such a statement, the world of sword replicas was much smaller. A&A really was the only option for replicas for a long time so I don't think you can apply his statement to today's market. Much has changed.

J. Hargis · Posted: Tue 22 May, 2012 3:49 pm Post subject:

Robin Smith · Posted: Tue 22 May, 2012 4:07 pm Post subject:

Mike Capanelli · Posted: Tue 22 May, 2012 4:20 pm Post subject:

Roger Hooper · Posted: Tue 22 May, 2012 5:18 pm Post subject:

I believe the Albion Mark Next Generation swords designed by Peter Johnsson started selling in late 2003. Before that, Albion sold swords designed by Randall Graham. Before that their swords were made by Gus Trim, though not as early as 1998. Early on, they also sold Del Tins and Armour Class swords.

Gus first made what he called Willow Blades for a vendor named Twilight's Door in 1999-2000. When they closed, he moved on to Albion.

Ewart Oakeshott never saw an Albion Next Gen sword, but I'm sure he would have loved it. mightily. I'm not sure that he ever handled an ATrim, and I couldn't say what he would have thought about them.

Edited to add - I found an old Netsword thread where Ewart Oakeshott praises one of Gus's early Willow swords - Here - On Netsword he was known as Piquet.

I like ATrim's a lot and have quite a few of them. However, even with hilts dressed up by Christian Fletcher or Sonny Suttles, they could never be mistaken for an original Medieval sword.

David Wilson · Posted: Tue 22 May, 2012 5:47 pm Post subject:

Angus Trim was making swords prior to 1998 (memory does not serve too well here, but it wasn't too much prior to then, like maybe a year or two). Not long after Albion started, they contracted with Gus to produce blades for their swords; these were mostly Roman-era swords (a couple gladii and a spatha), but there were a few other models as well (Albion also used blades by several other makers, such as Del Tin, Al Massey, and a few others, but Gus was their main supplier for a while).

Gus himself has stated that his swords are not fully historically accurate and are not meant to be. They are made with certain historic parameters in mind (in terms of typology and physical dimensions), but are primarily performance swords. They are meant to be used.

As well, several custom makers have used Gus' blades in their projects; Erik Stevenson and Christian Fletcher are well-known for this. Atrim blades are a great basis for customization; One of my Erik Stevenson pieces has a Gus-made blade that has been customized and is impossible to tell whether it is forged or machined. But this obviously took some skilled work to produce.

And BTW not long before his death, Ewart Oakeshott received a sword from Gus Trim (an Irish single-hander, IIRC). As I recall he was rather impressed with it.

Patrick Kelly · Posted: Wed 23 May, 2012 3:42 am Post subject:

Atrims aren't my thing and probably never will be. However, many people are quite satisfied with them and it's always nice to see a maker striving to improve their product.

Charles Richmond · Posted: Wed 23 May, 2012 7:58 am Post subject:

Patrick Kelly · Posted: Wed 23 May, 2012 4:31 pm Post subject: