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Is piercing armor just a matter of enough energy?
Mostly yes.

How much energy is "enough" depends on the geometry of the penetrator. A square spike is a good geometry - the narrower and pointier, the better. Until it's so thin it folds over when it hits.

If the weapon hits too slowly, a lot of the energy can be lost moving the armour or the armoured object; this energy won't be available for penetrating the armour.

Atkins, The science and engineering of cutting has a good chapter on armour piercing.
I'm interested to learn more about the Khopesh
Has anyone handled a khopesh? I found these on an older thread and I find myself intrigued. Especially by the edge thickness and the handling characteristics. I've consistently read that they are more ax than sword is this true? I know most surviving examples were not sharpened and that got me to thinking. Would one of these constructed of steel but with the same dimensions as their dull bronze or iron ancestors be a threat to a man in plate armor? I would think that the thickness would keep blows from glancing off the armor. I am especially interested in the example from Iran with its edge almost 2mm thick.


Jeroen Zuiderwijk wrote:
Khopesh of Nebkheperura Heqaiunushema Tutankhamen, (1334-1325BCE). Two khopesh examples were found in the tomb of Tutankhamen, preserved in perfect condition, including the wooden hilts (ebony?). Both are located in the museum in Cairo.

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Both examples side by side:

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Jeroen Zuiderwijk wrote:
Some oddballs, and khopesh-ish examples:

Copper Khopesh from Iran, early-mid 2nd mil BCE, British_Museum:
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A short khopesh/knife (XXIII Dynasty, 893-870BC, Metropolitan Museum):
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The top example here is from a painting from the tomb of Rameses III. It's a straight blade with a curved tip, and therefore isn't a true khopesh. This blade closely resembles examples of ceremonial swords from Scandinavia (ceremonial, as these were unsharpened), such as the second example. The bottom example is a copy of the latter in flint.
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Re: I'm interested to learn more about the Khopesh
Chase Bolling wrote:
Has anyone handled a khopesh? I found these on an older thread and I find myself intrigued. Especially by the edge thickness and the handling characteristics. I've consistently read that they are more ax than sword is this true? I know most surviving examples were not sharpened and that got me to thinking. Would one of these constructed of steel but with the same dimensions as their dull bronze or iron ancestors be a threat to a man in plate armor?


At under 2 feet long and well under 2 pounds (about 650g is typically what I see), impact spread over a long edge. A steel one of the same dimensions will be a little lighter. Less of a threat to a man in plate armour than most weapons.

While I suspect that a lot of the "handles like an axe" comment might originally come from the "compared with a fencing foil" line of thought, it's reasonable enough. It won't handle like a classic Medieval European sword, or like a smallsword. Perhaps golok/parang would be a better comparison than axe, but the right axe will do.

But don't overestimate the weight of battleaxes. I just weighed two battleaxes - a short one handed one was all of 235g, and a just over 3 foot long two-handed axe was 555g (that's two real, original, non-replica battleaxes; lighter one is African, two-hander is Indian). While a lot of replicas are overweight, the Mammen axe replica - a nice one-handed battleaxe - is 470g. I don't think the replica is lighter than the original. A one-handed Indian battle-axe (probably a replica) of about khopesh length (a little longer), steel haft: 650g.

Light weight means speed, speed means hitting first (cetera paribus), hitting first means more likely to win.


Last edited by Timo Nieminen on Sat 07 Jul, 2012 1:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
and my a40cm long daneaxe weighs 1.7kg but most of hat weight is the shaft
using this axehead http://www.manningimperial.com/item.php?item_...mp;c_id=13 the head weighs 640 grams to give an idea.

also, heres a replica of a caananite sickle sword.
http://www.manningimperial.com/item.php?item_...mp;c_id=12 considering that armour while no nonexistant, was rare for armies of aegypt and the levant, having a heavy weapon didn suit, and swords like the khopesh were probably slicing weapons and not brutal choppers.
If you don't mind me asking, Chase, why are you so interested in finding a sword that is effective against plate? Quite frankly it seems to me the same as trying to find the best screwdriver with which to hammer nails.
Any thoughts on what this might be?
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Looks agricultural. The grip and handguard is common enough on tools like billhooks. The spike is blunt, with completely unsharpened sides, and wouldn't get very good penetration (which would also be stopped by the flared side-hooks on the blade). If it was a weapon, a sharp spike would improve it.

Looks like a combination of a billhook and a Woodman's Pal (which is like a double-edge billhook, but with the hook on the back of the blade). Vineyard hook, perhaps?

You might be interested in a similar weapon, the Chinese chicken sickle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_sickles

In Chinese martial arts usage, the hooks appear to mostly be for blocking, binding, and trapping the opponent's weapon.
What about a different approach as a thought experiment, take a warhammer or a mace and give it as much sword characteristics as possible. A bardice or a Lochhaber axe gets quite close, but they lose much of the sword characteristics because the sword has a balance that is irreconcilable with the balance of the best armour smashers. You can try to forge some compromise that works for you and your requirements. The khopesh or the African swords were used within an environment of tactical demands, technological capabilities and enemy specifications to serve a task. None of these tasks included something close to European plate armour. The spikes on your original falchion might be better than nothing against plate, but they can't have the balance of an axe and the balance of a sword to work both ways, it's either or more of that or the other kind.
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