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Joe Fults
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 Posted: Fri 25 Nov, 2011 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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Just an entirely gratuitous post this time but now there are 100 posts in this thread! 
"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
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P. Cha
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| Posted: Sat 26 Nov, 2011 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe Fults wrote: |
Don't agree with you for a number of reasons but that's just my opinion. Although in truth it would probably have been better to say "perception of cost" rather than "cost" in my original post. My intended point being that what is perceived as costly to somebody and what is valuable, is not going to be quite the same for any other person. However, when talking about these things posters seem to assume that everyone else operates from the same frame of reference. I find that interesting. |
Ah, see what is costly is a function of value for me. Value is a scale and can be good or bad. If you think that 800 bucks (cost) for an albion is too costly for your collection (value...in this case bad) then the cost is objective (the albion will cost 800 bucks no matter who buys from albion...barring special circumstances of course) but the value assessment is subjective (plenty of us here think albions are a GREAT value for instance). Now the two issues you have when you buy any item is cost and value. If you can't afford the cost, you can't buy the item. I'd love to have an aston martin DB9. I can't afford one now or into the foreseeable future...pure and simple. There are people who will never be able to collect enough money for an albion...not can't afford one now, but can't afford one with foreseeable savings for one. These people will have one inexpensive sword from VA or hanwei or windlass or DSA and that is all they will have. That is fine. It's what they can afford. Then you see people who have half a dozen of these sword complain that they can't afford the albion and that is where the value comes in. Cost wise, 2 or 3 of those swords means you could afford an albion or Atrim. Value wise is where they are having the hurdle for those folks. They can totally cover the cost with foreseeable savings...but what they don't see is the value (and that is where the discussions comes in of course). So does this totally off topic rant kinda make sense now?
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Paul B.G
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| Posted: Sat 26 Nov, 2011 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| P. Cha wrote: | | Joe Fults wrote: |
Don't agree with you for a number of reasons but that's just my opinion. Although in truth it would probably have been better to say "perception of cost" rather than "cost" in my original post. My intended point being that what is perceived as costly to somebody and what is valuable, is not going to be quite the same for any other person. However, when talking about these things posters seem to assume that everyone else operates from the same frame of reference. I find that interesting. |
Ah, see what is costly is a function of value for me. Value is a scale and can be good or bad. If you think that 800 bucks (cost) for an albion is too costly for your collection (value...in this case bad) then the cost is objective (the albion will cost 800 bucks no matter who buys from albion...barring special circumstances of course) but the value assessment is subjective (plenty of us here think albions are a GREAT value for instance). Now the two issues you have when you buy any item is cost and value. If you can't afford the cost, you can't buy the item. I'd love to have an aston martin DB9. I can't afford one now or into the foreseeable future...pure and simple. There are people who will never be able to collect enough money for an albion...not can't afford one now, but can't afford one with foreseeable savings for one. These people will have one inexpensive sword from VA or hanwei or windlass or DSA and that is all they will have. That is fine. It's what they can afford. Then you see people who have half a dozen of these sword complain that they can't afford the albion and that is where the value comes in. Cost wise, 2 or 3 of those swords means you could afford an albion or Atrim. Value wise is where they are having the hurdle for those folks. They can totally cover the cost with foreseeable savings...but what they don't see is the value (and that is where the discussions comes in of course). So does this totally off topic rant kinda make sense now? |
Jonny come lately to this thread  lol
Cost & Value, I agree with your comments but with just one more factor to add, “Intended use”.
From my limited experience, and at my level of income, Albion’s represent great value for my intended use, which isn’t for frequent use backyard cutting. And in which case 1 Albion is better value than 2-3 lower end swords.
If my intended use was for frequent backyard cutting I would be looking in the sub $300 - $400 mark, and for me 2 – 3 lower end swords represents better value that 1 Albion. Sure you will get better handling from the Albion, but I just couldn’t bring myself to use an Albion in this way whereas I have no problems in using a DSA in the backyard against most anything. (todate I’ve only used my Crecy for dry handling and a couple of small water bottles)
A successful marriage requires falling in love many times, always with the same person
O====[::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and tho’
We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven; that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
—Alfred Lord Tennyson, Ulysses
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Sat 26 Nov, 2011 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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It seems like some people don't want to actually use a more expensive sword because of its cost. I find that odd. I buy more expensive swords precisely because I know that their quality, design, and accuracy, will allow them to handle what I need them to handle. I don't buy anything I won't use. That said, I also try not to do things that the swords weren't designed to do.
I think if you're cutting things analogous to what a historical sword would have faced, you want a historically designed sword, and it should hold up to that use. If you want to break concrete and do things historical swords weren't designed to do, get a non-historical sword. In short, if you're afraid to use your Albion, either get over it or reassess whether you're doing things you shouldn't be doing. 
The whole buying-one-Albion-instead-of-two-cheaper-things rationale only holds up if someone's goal is to only own one sword. If you only have 1 Albion's worth of money but want 2 swords, buy 2 cheaper things or save up until you have 2 Albion's worth of money. Some people's goal is to have a collection of a certain size. Some people's goal is to have a collection of a certain quality. Most people have some mix of those things, but sometimes you have to decide between quality and quantity.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Paul B.G
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| Posted: Sat 26 Nov, 2011 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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Gday Chad,
Yea I see what you are saying and I generally agree. But, lol, I’m one of those who obsesses over my nice things and sometimes overly look after them. Similar to my watches, Ive got a Rolex Seadweller & an Omega Speedmaster, even though they are meant for telling the time I never wear them when I’m working on my farm and when I wear them at the office or socially I’m conscious of them and mind were I swing my arm. Same thing with my Crecy, I’m very aware of it and don’t want to have any undue marks on it, perhaps when I have more confidence and control my feelings may change, but for now, for most of my free handling and target hitting its wasters for me
Give me a few years and I’ll probably be using my Crecy a lot more for light targets, and hopefully by then Ill have a Brescia Spadona in my case
A successful marriage requires falling in love many times, always with the same person
O====[::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and tho’
We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven; that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
—Alfred Lord Tennyson, Ulysses
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Joe Fults
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| Posted: Sat 26 Nov, 2011 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| P. Cha wrote: | | So does this totally off topic rant kinda make sense now? |
It made sense with your first post and its all stuff that is often lost in these debates as everyone tries to approach the problem from their own point of view without adequately anticipating, and appreciating, that there are others that are equally valid. Only in my opinion of course!
"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
Last edited by Joe Fults on Sat 26 Nov, 2011 6:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Austin D.G. Hill
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| Posted: Sat 26 Nov, 2011 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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one huge point is that if you do get a sword that costs $800+ you will not really want to damage it. although albions are very tough, even a small chip could be depressing, especially if you are like some like me that need to spend time saving for that sword. that is how i would feel at least.
AUSTIN DANIEL GLENN HILL
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Joe Fults
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| Posted: Sat 26 Nov, 2011 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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Sometimes the goal is to learn by experience and that can be well served by sampling as many options as possible. Some good...some not so good. Experiencing both sides of the spectrum can be of value. I find myself repeating the exercise with different hobbies...I think it amounts to learning to appreciate higher quality by coming to understand the differentiators firsthand. Darned expensive way to do things but since I've done it more than once, I can only hope it serves some decent purpose for me! 
"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
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Joe Fults
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| Posted: Sat 26 Nov, 2011 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Austin D.G. Hill wrote: | | one huge point is that if you do get a sword that costs $800+ you will not really want to damage it. although albions are very tough, even a small chip could be depressing, especially if you are like some like me that need to spend time saving for that sword. that is how i would feel at least. |
Depends entirely on how you view it. Is the Albion a work of art? Is it a simple tool? Does the $800 represent the whole of your discretionary funds for the year? Perhaps a large part of your discretionary funds? Maybe its just a drop in the toy bucket? These things all matter and it is important to appreciate that the variables are different for all of us. Not everyone cares that much about damaging an Albion. We need to use care when having these discussion that we do not assume one size fits all!
"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
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P. Cha
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| Posted: Sat 03 Dec, 2011 2:38 am Post subject: |
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| Austin D.G. Hill wrote: | | one huge point is that if you do get a sword that costs $800+ you will not really want to damage it. although albions are very tough, even a small chip could be depressing, especially if you are like some like me that need to spend time saving for that sword. that is how i would feel at least. |
Okay...I can maybe see that if your purpose for the sword was decoration or to just add to your collection...but for training swords? That's like buying a $2000 craftsmen tool set and not using it because you may damage it. If you don't use a tool you buy, then the tool loses it's purpose. Is the albion an expensive training tool? Yes it is. But the question of value becomes how long can you use said tool and what benefits do you get from the tool. For instance, the craftsmen set is bloody expensive...but that is a set of tool your grand kids can use. Likewise, albions are better made. The sword as a whole will last longer then cheaper made swords. Then there is the benefits. Craftsmen wrenches don't slip and strip nuts like cheaper wrenches can. Albions are balanced and feel more like real swords then other brands. Remember that the crux of this for a practice sword...and a practice sword (doesn't matter if it's sharp for cutting targets or a blunt for sparring) is a tool.
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Harrison Ross
Location: Colorado Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Thu 19 Jun, 2014 10:18 am Post subject: |
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Don't consider this trolling, but if anyone wanted to part with a darksword Ranger....... Well..... I would be willing to perhaps relieve them of it.... Providing payment or trade could be agreed upon.
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Dean F. Marino
Location: Midland MI USA Joined: 24 Aug 2011
Posts: 229
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| Posted: Thu 19 Jun, 2014 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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First - my congratulations on this thread. I see that several folks disagree on the pros and cons of DSA offerings... but not ONCE have I observed one brother crapping on another brother . Disagreement is healthy - personal attacks are pointless exercises conducted by children, best left to others on other sites....
For consideration, without quality comment - I've torn down and rebuilt a number of DSA offerings.
Generally, these will have a threaded pommel, 1/4x20" - very slightly larger than an HT, at 6x1 mm. Tang thickness is just UNDER HT dimensions... but not by much. Grips on a DSA offering are usually augmented by epoxy - as are the pommels. Uniformity of tang thickness is not quite as precise as that of an HT tang.
These offerings usually exhibit the inclusion of a 1/4x20" Safety nut, and washer. This element is SEPARATE from the pommel, which is usually threaded 3/4" deep (typical maximum tap depth), and (now) often peened, fairly shallowly. I have developed the term "cosmetic peen" to differentiate the peen-over-thread construction that I have seen on DSA's, and Gen2's... the term may NOT be entirely accurate - sort of depends on what the peen actually DOES.
The "Safety Nut" mystified me for quite some time - until I thought a LOT about it. I believe, without any corroborating data from DSA, that it's purpose is to minimize any potential "helicopter of death" in the event of a catastrophic pommel shear. In that sense, the element is non-historical, but of serious value to those that might use these blades in a serious fashion. I like the concept well enough to use it with a 6x1mm "Safety Nut" on custom HT builds. I incorporated the concept in a recent Gen2 Dordogne re-build. The idea may be used on any unkeyed threaded pommel offering by creating a small hollow at the base of the pommel.
Distal taper on these blades is, INDEED, less than other offerings... but it often exists, depending on model. A decent set of digital calipers will verify this on your particular model (or verify it's absence).
As with most offerings, from different manufacturers, in this price range? I consider these to be "kit swords". They will perform well out of the box, but can ABSOLUTELY be improved on by a tear down and rebuild. Having done several teardown-rebuilds with offerings from DSA, Gen2, CAS, HT, Cold Steel ... my conclusion is that these offerings are sound, if not totally perfect according to historical criteria. A little personal work can go a very long way .
In edhil, hai edhil. In edain, hai edain.
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Glen A Cleeton
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| Posted: Thu 19 Jun, 2014 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Harrison Ross wrote: | | Don't consider this trolling, but if anyone wanted to part with a darksword Ranger....... Well..... I would be willing to perhaps relieve them of it.... Providing payment or trade could be agreed upon. |
I would think posting a Wanted ad in the classifieds might be productive.
Cheers
GC
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Harrison Ross
Location: Colorado Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Thu 19 Jun, 2014 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Glen A Cleeton wrote: | | Harrison Ross wrote: | | Don't consider this trolling, but if anyone wanted to part with a darksword Ranger....... Well..... I would be willing to perhaps relieve them of it.... Providing payment or trade could be agreed upon. |
I would think posting a Wanted ad in the classifieds might be productive.
Cheers
GC |
Sadly, I already have. I knew this was a stretch.
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JC Hern
Location: USA Joined: 16 Oct 2014
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Thu 16 Oct, 2014 11:12 am Post subject: Poor quality and worse customer service |
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I must agree with Bill, I have not had luck with this company:
I purchased the Anduril sword from DSA about a year ago. From the start this sword had issues regarding the finish but I ignored them because no sword is perfect. Also, I was so excited to get it that I just didn't care. The real problem began to present itself upon further inspection. I noticed that the blade was a little off center, slightly angled to the right when looking at the broad side of the blade with the DSA makers mark facing you. After just a few test cuts that angle was the direction my tang bent. These tests were standard tests. One slice though a tatami mat, one half gallon milk jug, one gallon milk jug, and one (the final one) through a piece of trimming. A $400+ sword defeated by a $2 piece of trim. The worst part was that Mr. Ezerad refused to take the sword back and the hassle of shipping it to Canada for them to "fix" was like pulling teeth. Then when it was returned to me it was still bent, not like it was when I returned it to DSA but like it was originally! To top it all off, I take the hilt off and see that all they did was weld the tang back on in a straighter orientation. Eyal made it very clear to me that there would be no refund or inconvenience compensation so I tested it again after it was "fixed" and within minutes the weld gave and the blade cracked off. It had since resided in a corner, out of sight. I will never buy from Mr. Ezerad or purchase an item associated with him again and I have warned tens of other collectors about this issue and plan to tell all my friends.
-JC
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Dean F. Marino
Location: Midland MI USA Joined: 24 Aug 2011
Posts: 229
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Jeroen T
Location: Holland Joined: 23 Oct 2013
Posts: 56
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| Posted: Thu 16 Oct, 2014 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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To answer the Op´s question.
I´ve got an older model DSA 100 years war sword otherwise know as the Crecy.
I´ts a short broad blade from around 70cm and very thick that handles like crap with a lot of forward weigth.
In december my HEMA group is giving a show with a Viking Theme, since were normally doing 13th century stuff i don´t have a viking sword.
Rather then buying one i will be altering this into a blunt training/show sword.
I't s build like a tank so i think it will do fine but before use i will give it a good testing just to see how it holds up and how the tempering is.
So i'll let you know how it goes.
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