Quick question, what is the garment you wear over the body armor called? Wouldn't it be too hot to wear that many layers of clothing?
Also nice brigandines there :lol: are those made by loricamos?
| Edward Lee wrote: |
| Quick question, what is the garment you wear over the body armor called? Wouldn't it be too hot to wear that many layers of clothing?
Also nice brigandines there :lol: are those made by loricamos? |
Depends on period. lates 1100s to early 1300s, people wore robes and surcoats over their armour. Mid 1300s and 1400s, people wore jupons. I think later than that saw the wearing on the tabard. Also the wearing these garments was to display arms. and so that the sun doesn't beat down on bare metal, so it keeps the kit cooler to wear. In theory, a brigandine shouldn't need any of those garments over it since it is cloth mounted plate, the mountings keepo the plates cool and to makes your distinct with the mounting matriel, the pattern in the rivets etc.
| Philip Dyer wrote: | ||
Depends on period. lates 1100s to early 1300s, people wore robes and surcoats over their armour. Mid 1300s and 1400s, people wore jupons. I think later than that saw the wearing on the tabard. Also the wearing these garments was to display arms. and so that the sun doesn't beat down on bare metal, so it keeps the kit cooler to wear. In theory, a brigandine shouldn't need any of those garments over it since it is cloth mounted plate, the mountings keepo the plates cool and to makes your distinct with the mounting matriel, the pattern in the rivets etc. |
Thanks for the reply, sorry I didn't specify my question. I mean to ask what the garment worn over the plate armor is called, like the one shown a page before. It looks like a gambeson like garment but way thinner.
| Edward Lee wrote: |
| Thanks for the reply, sorry I didn't specify my question. I mean to ask what the garment worn over the plate armor is called, like the one shown a page before. It looks like a gambeson like garment but way thinner. |
It's just a coat.
On that note, I've seen several textual sources for people wearing coats over their armour like that from the late 15th century, but does anybody know if it shows up in illustrations too? I'm asking because all the texts tell me is that there was a coat worn over the armour, but they didn't explain how and my subjective impression was that the coat would have been worn closed (because in some cases they were worn to conceal the armour) whereas the pictures of modern reproductions (at least the ones I've seen) tend to show them open.
Got to borrow a chain shirt from a friend at a market today for a "How a knight shall be armed" demo me and him did. Figured it completed the current look of my kit, even if there are some glaring historical and scadian misses in there.
http://i.imgur.com/HeBuUaa.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/iUvlVDs.jpg
Non massive gambeson in progress, some sort of thighs needed, might change the arms up, globular breastplate incoming. All in all, it's coming along at least. Oh, and new arming cotte.
http://i.imgur.com/HeBuUaa.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/iUvlVDs.jpg
Non massive gambeson in progress, some sort of thighs needed, might change the arms up, globular breastplate incoming. All in all, it's coming along at least. Oh, and new arming cotte.
| Edward Lee wrote: |
|
Also nice brigandines there :lol: are those made by loricamos? |
Mine certainly is though I didn't buy directly from them. Given the looks of the piece I'm assuming Mario's is of the same make.
| Marik C.S. wrote: | ||
Mine certainly is though I didn't buy directly from them. Given the looks of the piece I'm assuming Mario's is of the same make. |
That is correct. I chose to go with red velvet for the cover, rather flat roundhead rivets (for the historical accuracy), brass buckles and hardened & blackened plates. I didn't order shoulders as I prefer to use gothic steel spaulders (Those are in the making). This was the closest I could get to a historical piece for a price I can afford.
Mine is pretty much the "deluxe" edition of their brig, with all the optional improvements and luxury upgrades.
I am -extremely- sastisfied with it, the fit and mobility is terrific.
The only upgrade I could think of would be one of ASH's brigs, but I just can't quite afford one yet.
For the price those Brigs are pretty damn great and the fit is just awesome.
I'm not entirely satisfied with the stainless-steel buckles I got but then I don't recall whether I specifically ordered the brass ones and since this is the only fault I could find with the thing I'm not going to complain.
ASH obviously would be a nice next step but I'm too lazy to rob a bank just before the holidays so this is going to have to wait for a bit.
I'm not entirely satisfied with the stainless-steel buckles I got but then I don't recall whether I specifically ordered the brass ones and since this is the only fault I could find with the thing I'm not going to complain.
ASH obviously would be a nice next step but I'm too lazy to rob a bank just before the holidays so this is going to have to wait for a bit.
My harness for full contact steel fighting. Was built in 5 days. Lacks alot of artistic love but damn does do a good job at keeping me safe! Wisby style
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Love the paintjob, it simply lifts the helmet to new heights.
Is all of it still Merkel's stuff? How did his splints hold up and how thick are the legs and splints themselves? (I'm assuming it's the famous all stainless suit I've heard about)
Is all of it still Merkel's stuff? How did his splints hold up and how thick are the legs and splints themselves? (I'm assuming it's the famous all stainless suit I've heard about)
This is a project I have been working on for the last few months getting ready for the 2015 joust season. Today was the first chance I had to put it all together and try it out. Still have some work to do but it is close to being done,,,, well, as done as any project ever is. The large shaped ecranche took some work.
| Henrik Granlid wrote: |
| Love the paintjob, it simply lifts the helmet to new heights.
Is all of it still Merkel's stuff? How did his splints hold up and how thick are the legs and splints themselves? (I'm assuming it's the famous all stainless suit I've heard about) |
Thank you! I sanded off the cross thoug, it was just a placeholder for blackened steel reinforcement but Merkel was way to busy to slap it on at the moment.
The text says "Veni ad me frater"
The splints arent double stacked. Its just on the outside wich is weak. I have twice blocked two handed weapons with my arms and both times it dented so badly i had to pound it out to be able to put it back on.
Entire body is 1mm joints are 1.5mm and helmet is 3mm all is stainless exept for the very rusty aventail ;p
Oh is it famous? hehe i just think it was a impressive build for such a incredible short time period.
I am swapping pieces out now thoug. Got full greaves. new cuisses and knees in tempered spring 1mm and a kuznacht brig made out of 2mm vehicle armor plating. (it was cheaper than hardened steel in Ukraine at the time)
Heard the stories of your helmet being the only surviving in Spain ;)
And how did the body hold up? The splints would seem to indicate the 1mm body armour was too thinn to hold up proper. And who's making the hardened greaves? Haven't been able to find a source that goes for less than 6000 sek once through customs.
@Rod Walker:
Is that the Sartor black silk with good brocade at 84$/m?!
Because dude, that's insane!
And how did the body hold up? The splints would seem to indicate the 1mm body armour was too thinn to hold up proper. And who's making the hardened greaves? Haven't been able to find a source that goes for less than 6000 sek once through customs.
@Rod Walker:
Is that the Sartor black silk with good brocade at 84$/m?!
Because dude, that's insane!
| Henrik Granlid wrote: |
| Heard the stories of your helmet being the only surviving in Spain ;)
And how did the body hold up? The splints would seem to indicate the 1mm body armour was too thinn to hold up proper. And who's making the hardened greaves? Haven't been able to find a source that goes for less than 6000 sek once through customs. |
haha the helmet has scratches from two handed axes ;)
Body held fine, but with no thrusts you mostly get pounded on your silouette along the shoulders head arms and legs.
The splints need to overlap to give them steel a fair chance, but id say 1mm stainless acts like mild steel. It dents easy its soft but you bang it out easy. Its heavy thoug! I had alot of two handers mashing at my legs and there the 1mm stainless did fine. Dented a bit thoug. Not crazy much.
Gradually replacing everything with spring steel gradually now.
They are from forgeofsvan, think they are like 290 euro. Not like the epic craftsmanship of the dwarfs in Moria.. but they make do. (Doesnt close up perfectly)
Finally assembled my half-armour.
Really happy about new tassets ans rondels.
Armour in 1490's style with one-piece plastron.
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Really happy about new tassets ans rondels.
Armour in 1490's style with one-piece plastron.
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Here are some pictures of my early 12th Century Norman kit. I still have some things I need to fix on it, like tailoring the Maille to fit better. Any advice on improvements I could make would be great!
Note: I do know the presence of a Gambeson in the period I am portraying is questionable.
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This picture is of my sister in her Viking kit(The photographer, and she says: Yes I know my kit is not historically accurate) and I.
Note: I do know the presence of a Gambeson in the period I am portraying is questionable.
Attachment: 334.49 KB Attachment: 282.71 KB Attachment: 332.53 KB Attachment: 270.79 KB Attachment: 368.84 KB Attachment: 388.2 KB Attachment: 408.37 KBThis picture is of my sister in her Viking kit(The photographer, and she says: Yes I know my kit is not historically accurate) and I.
| Joshua Waters wrote: |
| Here are some pictures of my early 12th Century Norman kit. I still have some things I need to fix on it, like tailoring the Maille to fit better. Any advice on improvements I could make would be great!
Note: I do know the presence of a Gambeson in the period I am portraying is questionable. |
Looks good to me, but I'm not qualified to critique period authenticity except as in a very general way: In other words I would be clueless about the minute details of period costume and decoration, type of belt or period specific shoes etc .....
As to tailoring maille, I've never done any myself but at a glance the fit on the arms doesn't seem to be too floppy or loose, at most the forearm part might taper just a little towards the wrist.
( Note: The maille sleeves on your sister's arms do seem to widen towards the wrist much more than with your maille sleeves, and her sleeves might benefit from being tailored as they widen considerably near the wrist ).
The main thing I would change, and this even from only a functional point of view, is that the slit in front of the mail shouldn't hang in a wide " V " gap almost inviting a lower belly stab ! The slit should look like a line where the edges of the maille meet in a vertical line even when the legs are a shoulder width apart, it would gap with a very wide stance or in a lunge or if running..
The slit is obviously needed for riding a horse. ;) :D
Last edited by Jean Thibodeau on Thu 08 Jan, 2015 12:51 am; edited 1 time in total
| Vadim Senicheff wrote: |
| Really happy about new tassets ans rondels. |
Hi Vadim,
Great kit!
Who made your armour - especially the rondells?
| Jean Thibodeau wrote: | ||
Looks good to me, but I'm not qualified to critique period authenticity except as in a very general way: In other words I would be clueless about the minute details of period costume and decoration, type of belt or period specific shoes etc ..... As to tailoring maille, I've never done any myself but at a glance the fit on the arms doesn't seem to be too floppy or loose, at most the forearm part might taper just a little towards the wrist. ( Note: The maille sleeves on your sister's arms do seem to widen towards the wrist much more than with your maille sleeves, and her sleeves might benefit from being tailored as they widen considerably near the wrist ). The main thing I would change, and this even from only a functional point of view, is that the slit in front of the mail shouldn't hang in a wide " V " gap almost inviting a lower belly stab ! The slit should look like a line where the edges of the maille meet in a vertical line even when the legs are a shoulder width apart, it would gap with a very wide stance or in a lunge or if running.. The slit is obviously needed for riding a horse. ;) :D |
From what I've seen at looking at bits of bayeux tapestry, both of these people's sleeves need to be shorter, the guy's sleeves much more so just behind the elbow. http://www.wga.hu/art/zzdeco/2tapestr/2bayeux/05bayeux.jpg The girl's sleeves get to be bit tighter but at least from examining this piece of the tapestry. http://www.wga.hu/art/zzdeco/2tapestr/2bayeux/05bayeux.jpg sleeves weren't nearly as well tailored yet like we see in full length and fully length sleeves with integrated mittens in later periods. I'm looking as a tapestry piece and the neck area confuses me, I don't know if the square thing is supossed to be a mail curtain hanging off the helmet and a double layer over the chest or a coif and unattached ventail.
| Philip Dyer wrote: | ||||
From what I've seen at looking at bits of bayeux tapestry, both of these people's sleeves need to be shorter, the guy's sleeves much more so just behind the elbow. http://www.wga.hu/art/zzdeco/2tapestr/2bayeux/05bayeux.jpg The girl's sleeves get to be bit tighter but at least from examining this piece of the tapestry. http://www.wga.hu/art/zzdeco/2tapestr/2bayeux/05bayeux.jpg sleeves weren't nearly as well tailored yet like we see in full length and fully length sleeves with integrated mittens in later periods. I'm looking as a tapestry piece and the neck area confuses me, I don't know if the square thing is supossed to be a mail curtain hanging off the helmet and a double layer over the chest or a coif and unattached ventail. |
Jean, Thanks! You are correct as my needing to tailor the riding split on my maille so it does not leave such a gap. I just need to get some extra time and the rings to do so! :)
Philip, from what I have seen after examining manuscript illustrations from that period I don't believe that all maille sleeves were that short, though I could be wrong as I don't know how accurate Manuscript miniatures dating is.
Here as the of the illustrations I am referencing:
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/3926/10772/
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4361/9948/
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4762/7798/
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/3995/11385/
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4449/11129/
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4471/11150/
The other reason the sleeves are so long is versatility, so when I decide to assemble a 13th century kit I don't have to buy another Hauberk.
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