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Mark Griffin




Location: The Welsh Marches, in the hills above Newtown, Powys.
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PostPosted: Sun 11 Jan, 2015 3:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm pretty much in the same boat as Nathan by the sound of it, a Company/Managing Director or CEO in US terms. Although my company is a legal entity in its own right as the C/MD I'm the legal guarantor of all decisions and that includes moral, legal, and financial ones. Its in corporate law here that i can't make decisions that actively endanger or harm the company and if the whole thing falls apart then I might well be liable for the fall out. It does sound very much that T&T is a sole trader so its down to them. There is nothing in law that says he can't take money and spend it on whatever he pleases, but he's still liable for the outcome and refunds etc.
Currently working on projects ranging from Elizabethan pageants to a WW1 Tank, Victorian fairgrounds 1066 events and more. Oh and we joust loads!.. We run over 250 events for English Heritage each year plus many others for Historic Royal Palaces, Historic Scotland, the National Trust and more. If you live in the UK and are interested in working for us just drop us a line with a cv.
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Mark T





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PostPosted: Wed 21 Jan, 2015 8:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

While there's been no response here, Tom posted the following over at SBG:

Tom K wrote:
Once I am able to bring some money in with my shop I plan to use it to help with refunds as needed. Gus also has a plan that he hopes will bring in some extra cash with which we will be doing refunds. I know this mess has been on going a disgracefully long time but it will end with every sword made and delivered or refunded.


https://sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/35118/?page=9

Chief Librarian/Curator, Isaac Leibowitz Librarmoury

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William Carew




PostPosted: Thu 22 Jan, 2015 12:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks to Mark for alerting me to this thread update.

I'm going on nearly 3 years now since my original order (and deposit charged). I have tried numerous times, via email and PM's on this and the SBG forum, to get an update from Tom. Little has been forthcoming for two and a half years. If T&TA were an Australian business, I would already have instigated legal remedies, but alas, they are USA based and I have few options as a foreigner trying to recoup an amount of money that would quickly disappear in legal expenses.

My email address, the one I used when I made my original order (and to which Tom had responded back when the order was only a couple of months old) has not changed. This thread, to which I have posted numerous times, is easily accessible should Tom choose to post an update. I can be messaged via this forum, or contacted by email at any time.

The fact absolutely no communication is forthcoming (I don't frequent the BSG forum, and don't feel I should have to, holding out for whatever scraps of information are posted there once a year) demonstrates that the proprietors of T&TA have absolutely no interest in trying to communicate with me about my order.

Of course, I realised some time ago that I will NEVER see the swords I ordered and paid a substantial (50%) deposit for. The only suitable resolution now is a full refund of my nearly 3 year old deposit.

If Tom is reading this, please PM me or email me about my order (numbers 97 and 101). I would like to have a refund of my deposit arranged ASAP. For everything I have said, I will be equally open should I receive communication and a refund.

Bill Carew
Jogo do Pau Brisbane
COLLEGIUM IN ARMIS
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Mark T





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PostPosted: Thu 26 Mar, 2015 12:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Even though he hasn't posted a response to Bill's direct request here, Tom has finally given an update over at SBG after some nudges ... though there's little in the way of detail: https://sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/35118/amp-atrim-update-thread?page=9
Chief Librarian/Curator, Isaac Leibowitz Librarmoury

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Jason Elrod




Location: Winchester, VA
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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jul, 2015 1:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Recently Kult of Athena has been carrying Angus Trim sword. There are 2 available right now and at least one more was available before. Gus also has a couple knives for sale on KoA too. The swords are going fast and KoA doesn't have a dedicated link to the Atrim swords so you have to do a search.

Gus seems to be up and running in at least a limited capacity. Hopefully this means that these late swords will be completed.
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Jeffrey Faulk




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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jul, 2015 1:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jason Elrod wrote:
Recently Kult of Athena has been carrying Angus Trim sword. There are 2 available right now and at least one more was available before. Gus also has a couple knives for sale on KoA too. The swords are going fast and KoA doesn't have a dedicated link to the Atrim swords so you have to do a search.

Gus seems to be up and running in at least a limited capacity. Hopefully this means that these late swords will be completed.


This is hearsay from the SBG/All Swords facebook groups, but Gus is in a position where he can produce some swords on the side a little more regularly, and has been working hard to catch up on his backlog. A piece was recently shown, for example, that will fulfill a T&T order. So give it time, and if you're on Facebook, you can probably get a update by joining All Swords or the SBG group and asking there.

Mind you, production seems to be strictly not much more than a couple swords every few months, so it's not like they're coming anywhere quicker. Gus (according to Tom Kinder) seems to have realized that the notion of mass-producing ATrims via CNC was not particularly a wise one in the long run and is going to focus a little more on individual swords and finishing up his backlog.
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William Carew




PostPosted: Thu 30 Jul, 2015 4:09 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Eh, in other words, most customers who paid deposits to T&TA will still miss out on a sword or a refund.

Sorry, but this is beyond ridiculous.

Ethically, not a single new Atrim sword should be sold until all the pre-orders with paid deposits through T&TA and any other ventures have been honoured or refunded. It's utterly unfair.

So I guess this is another update. Still no sword, no refund, no communication.

Bill Carew
Jogo do Pau Brisbane
COLLEGIUM IN ARMIS
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Brandt Giese




Location: Everett. Wa
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PostPosted: Thu 30 Jul, 2015 9:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have TRIED to stay out of this AND it is appears TRUE unfortunately but it looks like a class action lawsuit might be their only hope. I am sorry but thank you for airing my peace.
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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Fri 31 Jul, 2015 3:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Apparently Gus has now decided to devote a portion of his time to writing fiction, so there's yet one more roadblock to receiving your swords in any kind of time frame.

http://www.amazon.com/Ranger-Ask-Not-Salish-S...amp;sr=8-1

Honestly, with his track record I'm surprised anyone still does business with the man. If I wanted an Atrim, buying one already made would be the only way I'd consider it. Unfortunately the sword industry is rife with shoddy business models and practices, but this example has to be one of the worst.

"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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Metin Emre Gurbuz




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PostPosted: Wed 23 Sep, 2015 11:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bryan W. wrote:
I don't feel this is an issue isolated to Gus or those who have associated with him though. There are several makers who maintain a "decent" reputation and are just as guilty of this.

This is an issue that harms the entire industry. It makes people think twice about ordering another piece with something already outstanding or one at all. I have little incentive to order something by commission now from anyone new unless they have a very solid, proven track record, much less put anything significant down. I know it certainly has slowed down my own orders across the board. I went from 1-2 commissions a year to 1 in the last 2 years.

I for one have a commission with someone that is 2 years past the anticipated completion date and getting updates is like pulling teeth. Contrast this issue with my other current commission with John Lundemo who had one hell of a horrific year with a fire and a hurricane and STILL he manages to get things done and maintain communication lines. John gave me a personal call when things got delayed due to the fire. That's customer service and it means something. Will I order something from the first maker again? I don't know. Maybe not. However, will I order something again from Odinblades? Hell yes.



Totally agree with Bryan, i also had a commission with John at that time and i was informed right away for the delay due to hurricane and they asked if i want a refund or not and i said i prefer a refund. I got my refund in less than an hour.
Would i ever work with them again? As soon as i have enough cash for his lovely work and precious time. This is how you do business and keep your customers. I highly praise and suggest Longship Armoury or Odinblades customs to whoever needs a custom blade.
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Tom Kinder





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PostPosted: Fri 25 Sep, 2015 1:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

William Carew wrote:
Eh, in other words, most customers who paid deposits to T&TA will still miss out on a sword or a refund.

You should check your billcarew email for an update

Fact of the matter is that the backlog list continues to shrink every month and this year has seen more swords delivered and more customers refunded than ever
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William Carew




PostPosted: Fri 25 Sep, 2015 3:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Tom Kinder wrote:
William Carew wrote:
Eh, in other words, most customers who paid deposits to T&TA will still miss out on a sword or a refund.

You should check your billcarew email for an update

Fact of the matter is that the backlog list continues to shrink every month and this year has seen more swords delivered and more customers refunded than ever


Thank you Tom, I can confirm for the record that Tom has sent me a refund this week. I appreciate that.

You must appreciate Tom, after waiting a few years for any personalised updates, customers become cynical and expect the worst. Much of my concern would have been alleviated with regular personal communication, an email update once every couple of months is all it takes. Even if there is nothing specific to report on one's order, it is the regular contact itself that is reassuring.

Bill Carew
Jogo do Pau Brisbane
COLLEGIUM IN ARMIS
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Tom Kinder





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PostPosted: Fri 25 Sep, 2015 8:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I do understand that. It has been a bad situation and I did not always have the personal strength sit down at the keyboard and dish out another round of bad news. Other complications happened as well and it has been a big mess. I have answered tons and tons of emails and PM's over the years but not nearly everyone's it is true.

Long story short there is finally a light at the end of the tunnel. At the rate swords are moving now I can see an end to this whole mess in the not too distant future. I don't want to be too optimistic but it is possible that all swords will be delivered and or all refunds given within the next year.

Even if catastrophe does strike again for Gus I have a back up plan that is almost in place. One way or another everyone on my list will be taken care of.
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Spenser T.




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PostPosted: Thu 01 Oct, 2015 3:55 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Tom Kinder wrote:
I do understand that. It has been a bad situation and I did not always have the personal strength sit down at the keyboard and dish out another round of bad news. Other complications happened as well and it has been a big mess. I have answered tons and tons of emails and PM's over the years but not nearly everyone's it is true.

Long story short there is finally a light at the end of the tunnel. At the rate swords are moving now I can see an end to this whole mess in the not too distant future. I don't want to be too optimistic but it is possible that all swords will be delivered and or all refunds given within the next year.

Even if catastrophe does strike again for Gus I have a back up plan that is almost in place. One way or another everyone on my list will be taken care of.


Hi Tom,
I am order #99, obviously a lot has changed in the three years since the placing of the order. Should people in a similar position to myself contact you via PM on here or by email (if so what email can I use) regarding changes to addresses, billing, ect? In my case I no longer have the same address and the CC used I no longer have. Thank you.
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Tom Kinder





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PostPosted: Sun 04 Oct, 2015 8:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I do still use triedandtruearmory@gmail.com though I do not check it daily unless I am expecting something.

I always get confirmation of shipping address before shipping a sword as it is ready. a lot of times I have found the emails I have on record to be out dated. in these cases I go so far as to send a post card to the last known address if I do not hear from the person fairly soon. I have sent a lot of post cards actually.

you may PM me here, on SBG, on facebook (using this name) or the email above. regargless when the sword is ready I will be contacting you for your information.
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Spenser T.




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PostPosted: Mon 05 Oct, 2015 3:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Tom Kinder wrote:
I do still use triedandtruearmory@gmail.com though I do not check it daily unless I am expecting something.

I always get confirmation of shipping address before shipping a sword as it is ready. a lot of times I have found the emails I have on record to be out dated. in these cases I go so far as to send a post card to the last known address if I do not hear from the person fairly soon. I have sent a lot of post cards actually.

you may PM me here, on SBG, on facebook (using this name) or the email above. regargless when the sword is ready I will be contacting you for your information.


Thanking you for your quick response Tom, best wishes
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Mark T





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PostPosted: Mon 07 Dec, 2015 11:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

For those interested, Tom has published an update - including an explanation of why Gus's swords are appearing for sale in other places - at SBG: https://sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/35118/amp-atrim-update-thread?page=9
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Spenser T.




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PostPosted: Thu 09 Jun, 2016 3:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I would like to say that I did recently receive my T&T sword that I ordered in Feb 2012. I had long given up hope on it, but Tom did come through in the end. my order was #99.
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