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Fredrik Hörnell




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Location: Sweden
Posts: 53
PostPosted: Sun 26 Oct, 2003 7:13 am    Post subject: The aura of a sword... (pic)         Reply with quote

... or maybe it´s me severely lacking in fotografing skill and wearing a red sweater? Razz


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Tritonia (P.J. and original) at Stockholm medival museeum. [ Download ]
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Patrick Kelly




PostPosted: Sun 26 Oct, 2003 2:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If any sword deserves an aura it's that one!
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Russ Ellis




PostPosted: Sun 26 Oct, 2003 7:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Am I the only one that just really dislikes the pommel on that sword? I'm usually a big fan of type R pommels but that one just doesn't do it for me. Like the blade, like the guard... not that pommel.
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Sun 26 Oct, 2003 7:51 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Russ Ellis wrote:
Am I the only one that just really dislikes the pommel on that sword? I'm usually a big fan of type R pommels but that one just doesn't do it for me. Like the blade, like the guard... not that pommel.


I friggin' love it.. especially after seeing it in-person.

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Last edited by Nathan Robinson on Sun 26 Oct, 2003 10:37 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Patrick Kelly




PostPosted: Sun 26 Oct, 2003 8:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Russ Ellis wrote:
Am I the only one that just really dislikes the pommel on that sword? I'm usually a big fan of type R pommels but that one just doesn't do it for me. Like the blade, like the guard... not that pommel.


You must be, because I love it.
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Sun 26 Oct, 2003 10:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The Tritonia is definitely one of those types of swords one has to hold and see in person to truly appreciate it. When I first saw it, I thought it was unusual and its odd proportions were very unattractive to me. It seemed large, bulky, and unwieldy. Upon getting it in the hand, one is immediately shown the true surprise this sword has to give. It's truly an enticing weapon with a very complex blade geometry and unique handling characteristics. It's quite beautiful.

I think part of the reason it's thought to be so unusual is that it's quite unique on the reproduction market. I'm not sure I've seen another sword that even comes close to the Tritonia that has made its way into production. There are other historic swords with a similar appearance that I've seen documented, but I doubt their handling characteristics or even intended purpose are the same.

Here's a photo I took of the Tritonia:


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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Mon 27 Oct, 2003 6:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Russ Ellis wrote:
Am I the only one that just really dislikes the pommel on that sword? I'm usually a big fan of type R pommels but that one just doesn't do it for me. Like the blade, like the guard... not that pommel.


Actually, Russ, you're not, and it's good to know that I'm not the only one. Big Grin But there've been many swords that I didn't like until I handled them, and then fell in love. Somehow I have a feeling the Tritonia just might fall into that category...
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Russ Ellis




PostPosted: Mon 27 Oct, 2003 10:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Blahahaha two for and two against. Anyone want to break the tie? I'm just talking about the aesthetics of that pommel, I've never handled the sword or even seen it in person.
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Mon 27 Oct, 2003 10:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Russ Ellis wrote:
Blahahaha two for and two against. Anyone want to break the tie? I'm just talking about the aesthetics of that pommel, I've never handled the sword or even seen it in person.


I was on your side until I saw it. So I can just sit back here, smug, and know that if you had it in your hand you'd change to the dark side, too! grin.

In a similar way, it reminds me of the A&A Black Prince sword. Many people, including myself, do not find that sword (or even that type of sword) all that attractive. But once it was in my hand, I saw the true nature of that type of weapon. Their execution on the Black Prince sword really created a damn fine weapon that wasn't necessarily obvious from the photos. Quite a surprise.

I suspect the Tritonia will have this same need for bonding, too.

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Russ Ellis




PostPosted: Mon 27 Oct, 2003 1:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You are probably right I'll have to admit. I didn't particularly care for the Black Prince either until I got my paws on one.
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Jim Lindsey




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PostPosted: Mon 27 Oct, 2003 2:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Guys,

I hate to make it three against two (in favor of the Tritonia), but I have to say I like it. I'd love to get my hands on one and see how it feels. I've never seen one until the pics in these posts, but I must say it's a charming sword that looks like it has "that feel" and I find it to be a very attractive piece. Happy I'd like to experience what Nathan talks about when he says that it's a sword one must hold in hand to truly appreciate. It just has that look about it that tells me it'd be a pleasant surprise to feel in hand.

"And so it shall be that in the days of peace, one sword shall keep another in its scabbard."

Have a great day ! Best Regards,
Jim
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Howard Waddell




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PostPosted: Mon 27 Oct, 2003 2:26 pm    Post subject: Interesting to note         Reply with quote

Peter and Eric (and they could say much more than I can) on their recent tour through the back rooms of the Sweish museums, found several other "sister" swords to the Tritonia -- apparently the "ball" pommel style was very popular during that period in the region.

Eric is putting together an article for our site on the topic, along with photos and other information about their recent storeroom finds.

Best,

Howy

Albion Swords Ltd
http://albion-swords.com
http://filmswords.com
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Fredrik Hörnell




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PostPosted: Mon 27 Oct, 2003 4:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Just thought i would post the one pic i did´nt screw up... (to bad.)

I quite like the pommel actually, i would really like to have a sword like this.
I have held and carefully swinged around with the "Big Johnsson" now in care by Patrick Kelly and i much say that if the Tritonia is anything like it, (as i suspect.) the stats is not corresponding with the feel of the blade.
Heavy, yes.
Clumsy and slow, hell no!



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Tritonia_small.jpg
Slightly better pic of Peter Johnssons Tritonia, Stockholm Medival Museeum.
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Patrick Kelly




PostPosted: Mon 27 Oct, 2003 6:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Fredrik is right. Having handled the production version of the Tritonia, and my own Big Johnsson, I can confirm that both handle in much the same way. Both swords are fairly close in size and mass, with Tritonia having a bit more of the latter. Big Johnsson is slightly more responsive because of a difference in mass distribution, but not by much. (Slightly more taper in the blades profile, and a full length fuller contributing to this.)

Tritonia is probably the most suprising sword that I've handled in quite some time. It's size and mass really belies it's handling characteristics. I'm eager to write the review of this sword since there are a lot of interesting aspects to discuss. I'm trying to decide whether to proceed or wait until I have my own in hand for more extended study.
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Russ Ellis




PostPosted: Mon 27 Oct, 2003 8:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Rats although not alone I appear to be very much in the minority. Happy Ah well. I still think a nice G, H, I, J, K type pommel would do wonders for the aesthetics of that sword. Happy
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Peter Johnsson




PostPosted: Tue 28 Oct, 2003 12:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Russ Ellis wrote:
Rats although not alone I appear to be very much in the minority. Happy Ah well. I still think a nice G, H, I, J, K type pommel would do wonders for the aesthetics of that sword. Happy


Hi Russ!
You´re right of course.Happy
I did not really persononally like this pommel the first few times I saw the sword. It was part of the permanent display of the Museum of Medieval Stockholm since many years, and I always made a point of looking at the sword whenever I wisited. I guess it had some power of attraction, despite its spherical pommel...(I am also partial to wheel pommels, especially the deep ones) I saw that it was a high quality sword and was very happy to get the possibility to make a reconstruction for the museum. By that time the sword had infected me, and I could not understand my initial reservation to its pommel. To me that is now one of the finer aspects of the sword. It has a generous volume that sets of the slim cross and wide blade. The flower shaped rivet washer is simple but beautifully shaped in a way that tells us the original maker was interested in more than mere function.
A spherical pommel is not common when we consider the overall material preserved in europe, but it seems that these were popular in scandinavia (And perhaps most common in sweden?)
To make a reconstructionof a sword like this is to make a homage to the old masters. It can be a fun sport to dedicate yourself to details you at first do not even like.

Some swords have featurs that at first seem disturbing or a bit off. I have come to recognize that those often has the power of changing my present ideas of swords. When they grow on me, they change the boundaries of what I think a sword is and should look like. This is a good thing as it makes it possible to appreciate aspects that may have passed without remark until that time.
The sword of Svante Nilsson Sture, was another of these swords. I did not really like the look of that sword at first. When the work begins by studying carefully all details, these first impressions are forgotten as the work becomes more and more engrossing. Then a week or so later, it is impossible to understand why the thing looked strange or unattractive at first. It is an interesting process :-)
I actully really appreicate that you do not think the sword attractive, that means that the original character is there in the reconstruction. I think I know what you feel when you see the sword. I felt something of the same at first, myself.
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Russ Ellis




PostPosted: Tue 28 Oct, 2003 5:25 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Now there's some irony for you. It's interesting to me Peter that you made a reproduction of a sword that has a pommel that you did not even care for. I guess the customer is always right? Happy With all of the possibilities that you have to choose from and the limited number of swords you have recreated I would have thought that you would have very much focused on the swords that appeal to you the most personally. Would you say that the Tritonia is now one of your favorites? Since we are talking about the pommel, may I ask if it is hollow or solid? Was it cast?

I know what you mean about the Sture sword, when I first saw it I was repulsed but now I must admit the XVIIIe is my favorite type. So much so in fact that I am going to be contacting Albion (although I have not yet done so) about ordering one of their reproductions.

Alright, if I might be so bold as to ask, what is your favorite Oakeshott type if you have one?

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Allan Senefelder




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PostPosted: Tue 28 Oct, 2003 7:41 am    Post subject: the aura of a sword         Reply with quote

We have floating around the shoppe a very near twin of the Tritonia pommel from a 17th century military small sword we
took apart ( one of the quillons was long gone as well as both shell guards. the thought was to make new furniture
for it and continue it working life ) . It is of course about half the size and the flower atop it has been done with a file
rather than a seperate washer but it is otherwise pretty much identicle . Wheather it was just a long lived style or
the inspiration of one fellow who made it we of course don't have the foggiest ( absolutely no makers marks of
inventory stamps to be found ) .Sraps of parchment came out from the hilt around the blade used as shims that
had what appeared to be French on them .
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Patrick Kelly




PostPosted: Tue 28 Oct, 2003 3:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

"Alright, if I might be so bold as to ask, what is your favorite Oakeshott type if you have one? "

Man Russ, you really need to put Oakeshotts typology in its place and start thinking outside the box Big Grin

There are so many fascinating swords out there that don't fit into Mr. O's classification.
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Russ Ellis




PostPosted: Tue 28 Oct, 2003 8:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sure, but unless Peter posts a picture it's hard for me to get an idea of what he is talking about without some reference point. Besides, I'm pretty sure Oakeshott has managed to expand his typology rather handily at this point since he now has every sword ever made at his fingertips. Happy Now if he can just figure out how to get the expanded typology to us... Wink
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