[Craig Johnson]

Flexibility

Ahhh the old blade flex stories, a favorite chapter in the old "riddle of steel" mythology

There is also the Elizabethan description of the rapier blade that could be rolled into the brim of a hat and extracted and used in perfect condition. Another tall tail in my estimation.

As Peter indicated, this is something to be quite wary of when you hear descriptions of full circle flexing. It is also always impossible to find someone who has actually witnessed said test. Though one would think if achieved it would make a fine picture for the smiths website. There are several hurdles that physics and metallurgy through in the accomplishment of such a feat. The ones Peter has pointed out as well as such facts as

- any minor stress riser would be apt to create a wonderful display of the blades takedown ability. The use of pattern welding in the blade increasing the possibility of said flaws probably in the magnitude of a thousand or more.

- The fact that the non-hardened iron/steel in the core of the blade would actually add drag to the flex of the steel and work against it returning to shape.

- the metallurgy of the period had a distinct variegated quality with an inconsistent carbon content through out the blade and thus a varied flexibility through out the blade. This is of course only on that portion of the blade that was able to be hardened to the point of flexing. The rest of the blade as in the above point would just bend.

Work hardening is effective for edge retention when a cutting edge is needed. This works on the principle of sliding the molecules against each other to create a stiffer molecular structure. Think of a deck of cards. Each card is fairly soft. Take the entire deck and it is stiff but blunt. If you push the deck sidewise it retains stiffness but gets thinner in total cross section, thus allowing a cutting edge with more stiffness. This is of course a bit of a simplification but the general principle is there. This cold work hardening thus deforms the molecular structure creating stress and thus a "harder" area along the edge. It does not make the material denser or reduce molecular size as some smiths have claimed. This is the process sometimes called "edge packing".

This was a very common practice through out the ancient world and was used on copper, bronze, iron and steel tolls and blades. The ability of a bronze sword to be effective is dependant on this process. The bronze swords of the ancient period were in fact a bit "harder" along the edges than the work hardened iron blades of the same period.

I to would be very, very interested in any articles or papers the researchers have produced on this information.

Best
Craig

[Nate C.]

Kirk,

Do you have any more info/pics of that sword? If so, would it warrant another thread? I love the blade on that one (although I'd prefer a straight one ).

Thanks,

[Angus Trim]

[Scott Byler]

Kirk, let me echo a couple other folks and ask for any more info on that sword. Been a while, but that one has caught my interest, especially the blade. Very different... My first thought on seeing it was "hey, I wonder who could make me one of these"...

[Craig Johnson]

[Angus Trim]

[Thomas McDonald]

Michael "flexing" one of his sword blades at the Vegas show ! Mac

[Kirk Lee Spencer]

Hey Guys...

Sorry about the delay... I injured my heel playing basketball yesterday and have been in alot of pain.

The circle sword is a beautiful Halstatt piece... If I remember right it was found in the burial urn with the bones of its owner. That's the reason it had to be bent into a circle. I got the picture off of Jeroen Zuiderwijk museum pictures site.

http://membres.lycos.fr/bronzeage/

I have some more closeups and pictures of other Halstatt "top hat" pommel swords with "carp tongue" blades...

I will try to open a new thread with more pics and info in a few days.

take care.

ks

[Chris Post]

Off topic:
The Celts consistently destroyed their swords by heating them - so the "soul" leaves the blade. The German term for such a blade is actually "entseelt", I don't know if an equivalent exists in English. The blade was then bent or even crumpled quite horribly. I believe they did that to make sure nobody else would use a sword after the original owner's departure.

What Kirk posted is the typical degree of deformation. An atypical, but authentic specimen is this:

[Anton de Vries]

[url]http://www.siteclx.nl/rmo/index.php/do-collection/language-en/sub-eenrijkevorst

[/url]

Kirk's posting reminded me of something I saw in a museum a long time ago, so I searched a bit and found a pic and some text.
It's in a museum in Leiden, the Netherlands. Looks like it's the same sword.

[Thomas Laible]

I;ve found some information on a historical flexibilty test - and that one seems realistic to me.

The source is Philon of Alexandria (ca. 10-50 b. Chr.). He describes a flexibility test done with the swords of the iberian celts.

The sword is held at the handle with one hand and at the tip with another - flat above the head. Then the hands are slowly lowered down to the shoulders, so the sword bends. Than you have to bring up the hands QUICK, so the sword has to straighten very fast. This test hast to be done several times and the sword hast to straighten perfect each time.

This seems realistic to me.

Thomas

[David McElrea]

With regards to the beautiful sword posted by Kirk, I think it is "Hallstatt C". An almost identical one was found in Llyn Fawr, Wales, the main difference being it was hilted in bone instead of wood (and the Welsh example is a bit worse for where with the blade broken and the pommel lost). Beautiful, either way.

Unfortunately, I have no scanner, so I've only this rather ludicrously small pic to offer.

[Raymond Sauvage]

As I said above, the projects ame was to examine a number of swords in norwegian and russian museums using non-destructive metodes like stereo-X-ray etc. Since a non destructive aproach was used, they where able to examine over 300 swords choosen from more than 3500 viking age swords in Norvegian museums and some from Russians. The aim was to look for inscriptions and patternwelding.
The project was ledd by Anne Stalsberg from the university of Trondheim and prof. Anatol Kirpitsnikov from the university of St. Petersburg. Also conservationsts Leena Airola and engineer/blacksmith Kasper Andresen partisipasted.
They are curently working on publishing the work which I belive will be published this year in Norvegian and Russian (for those reading only english i belive there wil only be an english abstract). The work wil contain a catalog of the swords examined.
To sumarice the results so far: Allmost all swords had inscriptions both letters, geometrical patterns and figures. Some also had Cryllian letters (Russian alfabet). There seems also to be some signs of early christian influence, lots of crosses and on one there was a crusified person. All blades was built up using rods welded together to form the blade (like patternwelding). On some the rods was twisted in different ways producing a varity of patterns (This is offvourse known on a varity of swords). But it also shown that the blades was made from rods wich did not produce patterns.

sincerly
Raymond Sauavge
stud.MA, Museum of science and archaeology, NTNU, Trondheim

[Patrik Erik Lars Lindblom]

Hej Å Välkommen Raymond!
I hope you let us know when that book will be released, and where to get it.