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Helen Miller




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PostPosted: Tue 04 Oct, 2005 7:51 pm    Post subject: Leather for shield?         Reply with quote

Does any one know of a website where I could find some affordable, durable leather. I want to use it
to make a shield???



Thanks!
Helen

-"A woman's tongue is her sword, and she does not let it rust."
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Aaron Schnatterly




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PostPosted: Tue 04 Oct, 2005 8:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Leather can be fun to work. I'd check around to see if there is a leather supplier locally - it's easier to go and see and discuss what you need.

Failing that, I've always had good luck with www.tandyleather.com or www.leatherfactory.com - sister companies. They aren't always listed in the yellow pages, but there is a good list of stores on these sites. There are a lot of other suppliers too - perhaps others can chime in to help.

I'd be interested in hearing more about your project!

-Aaron Schnatterly
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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Tue 04 Oct, 2005 8:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hey Helen,
I was just about to e-mail you this link, but since you posted I may as well let everyone know:

http://brettunsvillage.com/leather/

Brettuns Village tends to have the best prices I've seen, including the shipping costs, although you have to wait until he actually has the leather you're looking for in stock. It's where I got the leather to put over the wood for that targe I made. I believe I used 4-5 oz leather, though I can't really remember exactly.
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Tue 04 Oct, 2005 8:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

And my personal favorite on the planet: http://www.hidehouse.com/

They have high quality and lots of variety. They are not the cheapest.

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Helen Miller




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PostPosted: Wed 05 Oct, 2005 3:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bill Grandy wrote:
Hey Helen,
I was just about to e-mail you this link, but since you posted I may as well let everyone know:


Sorry, I've got itchy typing fingers Wink Thanks guys for all the links, I so appreciate it! I'll keep you updated.

-"A woman's tongue is her sword, and she does not let it rust."
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Aaron Schnatterly




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PostPosted: Wed 05 Oct, 2005 3:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Helen-
Since Bill mentioned a target, these came to mind. Don't know if these are anything like you have in mind, but they sure are attractive! Thought they might serve as some inspiration, if you are looking at making anything similar...

Scottish Targets

-Aaron Schnatterly
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Helen Miller




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PostPosted: Thu 06 Oct, 2005 4:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

OMG! Definately an inspiration BUT also pressure Eek! Number 9 looks simple out of the lot. Hmmm.......
Thanks Aaron....

I think I can work off of this.


Helen

-"A woman's tongue is her sword, and she does not let it rust."
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Aaron Schnatterly




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PostPosted: Thu 06 Oct, 2005 5:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Helen Miller wrote:
OMG! Definately an inspiration BUT also pressure Eek! Number 9 looks simple out of the lot.

I think I can work off of this.

Yup, I like them too! Keep in mind that this is what this gent does, and charges/gets $450 each for them... there's a better website with more detail, but I haven't been able to find it again. Bet Mac knows, though... I'll keep looking. I know it's out there somewhere...

I'd use these for inspiration rather than for a pattern - that way, you have your own original piece. It'll probably mean more to you that way as well.

Can't wait to see what you come up with, though!

-Aaron Schnatterly
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Aaron Schnatterly




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PostPosted: Thu 06 Oct, 2005 6:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Found it! The link is here: The Targe Maker - nice, pretty work. You can get some clearer images of each from that page. Here's the one you mentioned earlier... and now you can see the tooling he has done on the face...


I personally wouldn't go to nearly this length for a piece I would use for training or reenactment combat... too pretty and too much work to be beat up intentionally. I would, however, if I were to use it as an addition to a collection... that's hours and hours and hours and hours of tooling... Beautiful, though...

-Aaron Schnatterly
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Thomas McDonald
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PostPosted: Thu 06 Oct, 2005 10:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Guys

Aye, Joe Lindsay makes some very nice targes !
(* you can view a couple of his MacDonald ones, in better detail, on my album Here)

I believe Joe uses a stamp to press the designs in, not actual tooling, as it would be quite hard to pump out that many in a consistant design ! Not to mention the increased labor costs in doing it the old way !

We'll be paying Joe a social visit this October so maybe he will give us a few insights about his production ?

Also, checkout my-Armoury album on Original Scottish Targaid at this Link, as it may give you some additional design ideas !

And .... James Taylor does some great targes, all hand tooled, which I shall attach pics of below !

Mac



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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Thu 06 Oct, 2005 10:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Aaron / Mac;

Really beautiful shields and beautiful leather work: It makes you want to scream " Hit me in the FACE ....... NO NO NO ! Don't hit my SHIELD. Razz Laughing Out Loud

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Aaron Schnatterly




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PostPosted: Thu 06 Oct, 2005 10:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mac-

Thanks a lot for the detailed look at these - construction and all! Really some beautiful pieces of art, not to mention their actual use. If anyone I run into doesn't feel that arms or armour has any artistic / aesthetic value, these may convince them otherwise.

One of these is definitely on my "in the future" personal projects list - making one completely by hand would be a lot of work, but worthwhile.

Keep at it, Mac, and I may yet adopt some Highland ways... Wink

-Aaron Schnatterly
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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Thu 06 Oct, 2005 11:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I made one years ago that Bob Busch now owns... maybe I can get him to snap a picture for me. Mine wasn't anywhere near as pretty as those, but overall it was really easy to make. I used antiqued brass furniture tacks on the face. Took an afternoon and some patience, but otherwise it wasn't at all hard to do.
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Aaron Schnatterly




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PostPosted: Thu 06 Oct, 2005 11:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mac-

Some questions for you... a bit of clarification, if you don't mind...

1) neighborhood of 20 inches about the norm?

2) wood thickness, underneath the leather and hide - 3/8? 1/2?

3) hide on the back... hair-on deer? Would red wool also be a viable/historic alternative?

4) leather thickness? 4 oz (thickness of a quarter)?

5) purpose of the leather strips on the back - those to hold the hide fast so it doesn't pooch out?

6) on the Ranald shield, it shows a spike, but also a plug (?) that closes the hole in the boss and protects the threads... this correct? What do you do with it when the spike is in place?

7) anything making the hand grip rigid, other than rolled up and sewn leather?

I'm actually really kind of interested in checking one of these out... might just have to do one of these on rainy days when I can't do other work in the shop or outside. Don't know if I'll go as far as the spike, but who knows... it's just a little more metal work... shouldn't be HORRIBLE to do, if I can run Murphy and his laws out of my shop!

-Aaron Schnatterly
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Aaron Schnatterly




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PostPosted: Thu 06 Oct, 2005 11:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bill Grandy wrote:
I made one years ago that Bob Busch now owns... maybe I can get him to snap a picture for me. Mine wasn't anywhere near as pretty as those, but overall it was really easy to make. I used antiqued brass furniture tacks on the face. Took an afternoon and some patience, but otherwise it wasn't at all hard to do.


How'd the tacks hold up under use? They seem to be pretty well secure, and wouldn't be that bad to replace if they had to be... but if it's an all-the-time issue, I'll look for another alternative. The heads can be a little fragile...

-Aaron Schnatterly
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Pamela Muir




PostPosted: Thu 06 Oct, 2005 12:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, Helen, it looks like you've been challenged. I'll see how yours turns out before I start on mine. Then I can come to you for advice. Hee, hee. (And I think you know Bob so that you can take a look at his. Wink )
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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Thu 06 Oct, 2005 12:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Aaron Schnatterly wrote:
How'd the tacks hold up under use? They seem to be pretty well secure, and wouldn't be that bad to replace if they had to be... but if it's an all-the-time issue, I'll look for another alternative. The heads can be a little fragile...


They held up just fine. I think one tack popped out once, and I never experienced another problem, and I don't think Bob's had any problems. The leather seems to provide enough shock absorbency to help prevent them from popping out.

I recall when I made the shield that you had to be careful not to bend the nail portion when hammering them in. I had to hold them with a pair of needle nose pliers, else they'd bend by the second or third hammer blow and not go straight in.
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Aaron Schnatterly




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PostPosted: Thu 06 Oct, 2005 12:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bill Grandy wrote:
I recall when I made the shield that you had to be careful not to bend the nail portion when hammering them in. I had to hold them with a pair of needle nose pliers, else they'd bend by the second or third hammer blow and not go straight in.

Yup... been my experience with the little lovelies in the past, too.

Makes sense about the leather absorbing some of the shock... and I guess that if any get damaged through actual abuse, they won't be too hard to just replace.

Appreciate it, Bill!

-Aaron Schnatterly
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Thomas McDonald
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PostPosted: Thu 06 Oct, 2005 1:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Aaron

1.) Aye, 19" to 20" was the norm !
2.) Between 1/2" & 3/4" ..... maybe 11/16th, or so !
3.) Deer, cow, sheep ..... I don't recall seeing a red wool one, ?, but I don't see a reason it wouldn't be okay !
4.) I think James used 9 oz. on his ..... One original Larry Davis researched was about 1/8" thick (see links below) so a quarters thickness would be good to go in my opinion !
5.) The leather straps were for holding the padding of straw, or wool, etc., in place, under the hide, so that you'd have a cushion to absorb shock to the arm ..... plus it no doubt helped hold the hide in place as well !
6.) Yes, I usually just fire it in my sporran for safe keeping !
7.) The leather is wrapped around a piece of braided rope, or some sort of thick twine ! It's not rigid, but has a good secure feeling when grasped and pulled toward the forearm !

Not to take the discussion away from the great mA , here .... but do read thru some of these targaid threads (below), on SFI's Scottish Forum, as they will help answer many questions on the subject of modern targe building, mixed in with some of the research that a few have done on historical originals !

Than we can continue our fun back here :-) Cool stuff, Mac

Ft Frederica Targe
Targe Talk
Targe Construction
Some awesome targes by our own James Taylor !
Targe Construction (and thanks James!)
The Targe I made.
Targe
A targe by James Taylor!
Locations of 17th & 18th century Targes in North America

Aaron Schnatterly wrote:
Mac-

Some questions for you... a bit of clarification, if you don't mind...

1) neighborhood of 20 inches about the norm?

2) wood thickness, underneath the leather and hide - 3/8? 1/2?

3) hide on the back... hair-on deer? Would red wool also be a viable/historic alternative?

4) leather thickness? 4 oz (thickness of a quarter)?

5) purpose of the leather strips on the back - those to hold the hide fast so it doesn't pooch out?

6) on the Ranald shield, it shows a spike, but also a plug (?) that closes the hole in the boss and protects the threads... this correct? What do you do with it when the spike is in place?

7) anything making the hand grip rigid, other than rolled up and sewn leather?

I'm actually really kind of interested in checking one of these out... might just have to do one of these on rainy days when I can't do other work in the shop or outside. Don't know if I'll go as far as the spike, but who knows... it's just a little more metal work... shouldn't be HORRIBLE to do, if I can run Murphy and his laws out of my shop!

'Gott Bewahr Die Oprechte Schotten'
XX ANDRIA XX FARARA XX
Mac's PictureTrail


Last edited by Thomas McDonald on Thu 06 Oct, 2005 2:02 pm; edited 10 times in total
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Aaron Schnatterly




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PostPosted: Thu 06 Oct, 2005 1:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Many thanks, Mac! I'll do some research, see what I can drum up... construction, materials I might find to make one, etc.

And yes... this topic is FAR from over... though this will be a spare-time project, but definitely on my list. It's just too cool not to attempt. Other things must take priority, though...

Helen, see what you made me do? Razz

-Aaron Schnatterly
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