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Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Cold Steel Grosse Messer Sword Reply to topic
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Bob Burns




PostPosted: Fri 25 Nov, 2005 11:38 pm    Post subject: Cold Steel Grosse Messer Sword         Reply with quote

Wow I am one happy guy, I am going over to www.kultofathena.com Saturday to buy this sword, wow the price is so low I cannot believe it. http://www.kultofathena.com/product~item~CS88...Messer.htm

All I can say is it is gonna be hard to keep disciplined now about buying swords! Only 25 miles.

Anyway, I handled this sword last weekend, it is a single edged one or two hand sword that is both a cut and thrust. I don't know the period of origin but I do know it is German.
I will post my evaluation of it when I get it. Last weekend I kept picking this sword up because it kept calling my name "Bob, Bob, buy me, buy me." But since I was buying two daggers and wife was with I had to grudgingly resist the calls. Wife gave me the OK to buy it once she saw the retail price for it and what Kult of Athena charges for it.

Happy Collecting,

Bob
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Fri 25 Nov, 2005 11:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Check out my Hands-on Review of it and my Collection Gallery Page to learn about the origin and other details.
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Sam Barris




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PostPosted: Sat 26 Nov, 2005 2:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You might also wish to search past posts concerning this sword. I seem to remember one of them snapping in half during some fairly light cutting exercises.
Pax,
Sam Barris

"Any nation that draws too great a distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards, and its fighting done by fools." —Thucydides
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Patrik Erik Lars Lindblom




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PostPosted: Sat 26 Nov, 2005 4:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here are that Topic, and Pics 1. 2. 3.
Frid o Fröjd!
Patrik
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Bob Burns




PostPosted: Sat 26 Nov, 2005 7:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

WOW! Thank you so much Nathan, that cements my already concrete decision to buy this sword today!

I cannot see this sword breaking, anything can break if it is wrecklessly abused, I did like the feel of this sword and kept going back to pick it up again but having bought the two daggers by Windlass and my wife with me, I was not going to push it. Last night she gave me the OK having seen the low price they are asking for it. She too thought it was a very interesting sword and knows that I am going for a type of collection that is of all different types of swords.
Well, less than 3 hours until they open, so the countdown begins, LOL I got 4 hours sleep last night because I was so wired about being able to buy this sword today!

Truly Obsessed,

Bob
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Bob Burns




PostPosted: Sat 26 Nov, 2005 7:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Patrick, thanks but I am still gonna take my chances, though I appreciate what your saying!

Bob
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Patrik Erik Lars Lindblom




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PostPosted: Sat 26 Nov, 2005 8:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Big Grin Do that Bob, i like it my self the look of it and thats are just some information about swords,
before i us my babys, i grip it on the blade and knock on it and listen after some strange sound, just in case,
everything brakes sooner or later when you us them,
Good luck Bob Big Grin

Frid o Fröjd!
Patrik
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Sat 26 Nov, 2005 9:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bob Burns wrote:
WOW! Thank you so much Nathan, that cements my already concrete decision to buy this sword today!

Really? My review wasn't a very good review. I don't like that sword. It's far too heavy and is far too different than anything historical. The construction of the hilt is also questionably ridiculous. And the "stamped out" piece of metal that they use for the guard is just silly. These are simply my own opinions though. The beautiful thing about the hobby is that mileage varies for each of us. Happy

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Kenneth Enroth




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PostPosted: Sat 26 Nov, 2005 11:13 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Robinson wrote:
Bob Burns wrote:
WOW! Thank you so much Nathan, that cements my already concrete decision to buy this sword today!

Really? My review wasn't a very good review. I don't like that sword. It's far too heavy and is far too different than anything historical. The construction of the hilt is also questionably ridiculous. And the "stamped out" piece of metal that they use for the guard is just silly. These are simply my own opinions though. The beautiful thing about the hobby is that mileage varies for each of us. Happy
It chops like an axe though and mine has been very sturdy.
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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Sat 26 Nov, 2005 11:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I haven't handled the CS messer, so I can't say anything as to it's handling. I do think the guard looks ugly due to how they made it.

I have talked to some people who have handled original messers, and they point out that the biggest misconception is that these are supposed to be heavy choppers: They aren't. They are light and agile. These are shown in various German fencing treatises, and some of these treatises even point out that the techniques with the messer are the same as with any other sword. This would imply that the handling of a messer is not drastically different than that of the double edged sword.

I have stayed away from this particular messer purely because almost every review talks about what a monstrous chopper it is. Most reviews use this description as a positive thing, but it tells me that this sword likely does not represent the typical messer's handling attributes accurately.

Virginia Academy of Fencing Historical Swordsmanship
--German Longsword & Italian Rapier in the DC Area--


"A despondent heart will always be defeated regardless of skill."
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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Sat 26 Nov, 2005 11:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Durability can be hit or miss sometimes, a good brand can give you a lemon and a SOSO brand a jewell in the rough.

Bob, hard to tell which is which just by looking at it, and I don't think they will let you do any cut testing.

Don't know if this is a good suggestion or not but you might try wiggle wagging the blade from side to side: A really poor blade might just snap right there ! And I don't think they could call this abuse forcing you to buy it anyway !

Well, this might be dangerous if the blade does snap so don't do it too close to anyone or too vigourously. Eek!

At least look real close at were the blade meets guard for any obvious flaws.

Like I said, I really don't know if this helps and maybe someone has good suggestions about how do you check out a sword when you have the opportunity to handle it before buying: It it possible to spot a bad one at a glance?

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Sam Barris




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PostPosted: Sat 26 Nov, 2005 12:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bob Burns wrote:
I cannot see this sword breaking, anything can break if it is wrecklessly abused...


I'm not sure that cutting a pumpkin counts as reckless abuse, nor do Lloyd and Co. seem to be the type of guys who would ask more of a weapon than what should reasonably be expected of it, but perhaps that particular blade was just a factory defect. Best of luck, and let us know how it works out for you.

Pax,
Sam Barris

"Any nation that draws too great a distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards, and its fighting done by fools." —Thucydides
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Sat 26 Nov, 2005 1:55 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Kenneth Enroth wrote:
It chops like an axe though and mine has been very sturdy.

But that's sort of it for me: It's not an axe.

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Bob Burns




PostPosted: Sat 26 Nov, 2005 3:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

OK, I bought the Grosse Messer, I Love it! It's a beast, I mutilated several boxes already with it. For the price of $169.00 at www.kultofathena.com (which is only 17.5 miles and not 25 miles from my house) it's a real bang for the buck in my book. Perhaps not everyone's sword but I am very endeared to it, especially given the low price. This is going to be a real fun sword, personally I do not think it was meant to be a graceful sword, it is more of a mutilator and mauler and it is my first one edged sword, kind of makes me think of it as a giant Rondel dagger in a way. It's a powerful thruster and a beast of a cutter, well everyone has their own opinions, all I can say is that I am glad I bought it not a single regret and for the price I paid, I really do love this sword! After all it was my money that was spent so what matters is that I am happy with what I bought and I surely am happy! Besides why would someone expect a sword like this to be graceful per say? This is a power sword in my opinion with a lot of different mechanics to it utilization than double edged swords etc. It has a real nice spring to the blade and the edge is razor sharp while the spine is a 1/4 inch thick, a deep fuller half way down the blade.


This is a whole different kind of sword than anything I have, one of the directions I am taking in my collection is a diversity of swords. Well all I can tell you is "I Love This Sword!"


Happy Collecting,

Bob
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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Sat 26 Nov, 2005 7:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bob;

At the price it's hard to go wrong there.

One way to look at it is to enjoy it's handling characteristics as a big cleaver but avoid thinking that the real Messer handled the same way.

The Albion Messier should give a much more accurate idea of what the real ones were like. ( Big, sharp, scary but agile. )

I see no reason to ruin your fun if you are enjoying it.

Don't judge it in comparison to something else: Good or bad it has it's own charactor that you can learn from.

All the different views about it are also something to learn from.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Bob Burns




PostPosted: Sat 26 Nov, 2005 9:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Albion is going to make a Messer? Great! If they do I will have to buy one. This particular Messer is not that heavy, has a forward weight feel to it, seems to move fine for me, I mean it does not feel bulky but let's face it, you do not get a BMW with Chevy money, and your not going to get an Albion with Cold Steel money either. I am certainly not saying this sword is the cream of the crop or anything like that, but for what I paid I got a very nice sword. All the fittings are tight, I agree I am not to fond of the crossguard either.
Performance wise, I used it on several thick cardboard boxes and it did an outstanding job, I assure you the boxes lost the battle. LOL. It is heavier than my A&A English Longsword and lighter than my German Bastard Sword, those also being hand and a half swords, of course it does not compare to them in quality, but then it was only about 1/4 the cost.
Don't worry I am not going to go cheap, next sword will be the Arms & Armor Edward III Sword followed by their 12th Century Sword.

I really like the design of the blade on the Messer, especially the distal part of the blade! By the way, there were no manufacturing flaws on this sword.

Happy Collecting

Bob
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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Sat 26 Nov, 2005 9:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bob;

The only way you could not know about the Albion Messer is that you haven't been to the Albion site or didn't scroll down the whole Next Generation page. I'm chocked, chocked I say ...... Eek! Razz

I'm sure you can find it by yourself but here is the Albion page where you will find the concept drawing and a description of it.

Don't forget to scroll down ! Big Grin http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/sw...extgen.htm

Oh, and yes it will cost more than the Cold Steel one: $1,150

Actually the Kriegsmesser is closests to what you have now.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Sat 26 Nov, 2005 9:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Heck, for $160, I'd say you've got yourself quite a deal!
Virginia Academy of Fencing Historical Swordsmanship
--German Longsword & Italian Rapier in the DC Area--


"A despondent heart will always be defeated regardless of skill."
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Patrick Kelly




PostPosted: Sat 26 Nov, 2005 9:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bill Grandy wrote:
Heck, for $160, I'd say you've got yourself quite a deal!


I agree, for that kind of money I don't think you got hurt.

"I'd rather go upriver with 7 studs, than a 100 sh!theads." - COL Charlie Beckwith, founder SFODD
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Bob Burns




PostPosted: Sat 26 Nov, 2005 9:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Bob;

The only way you could not know about the Albion Messer is that you haven't been to the Albion site or didn't scroll down the whole Next Generation page. I'm chocked, chocked I say ...... Eek! Razz

I'm sure you can find it by yourself but here is the Albion page where you will find the concept drawing and a description of it.

Don't forget to scroll down ! Big Grin http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/sw...extgen.htm

Quote:
Oh, and yes it will cost more than the Cold Steel one: $1,150

Actually the Kriegsmesser is closests to what you have now.


$1,150.00! Jean you did say you envied me having a place like Kult of Athena so close to my home. Your trying to get me killed aren't you! LOL

Still laughing,

Bob
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