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Aaron Schnatterly
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 Posted: Tue 13 Dec, 2005 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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These are not the clearest of pics for illustrating the added/dropped ring method of loosening/tightening maille that I used to taper my sleeves, but it's the best I can do, at least for now.
This first picture is for clarity/reference without the colors shown in the other pics below - it's a detail of part of the top of a coif.
In this pic, I've detailed the "typical" link in the usual 4:1 pattern. You can see the ring with the red dots passes through 4 rings with blue dots...
This shows an extra link added to widen the next row down... if the red ring were the one from the prior picture, the two blue ones would be the bottom two in the picture. The green one is an "extra" one, that is stuck in there to make the expansion. The reverse of this is to leave out one of the blue ones (and obviously not add the green one) to reduce the next row.
This is probably clear as mud, but if you play with it, it'll work out, the light  will suddenly go on, and you'll have it.
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Elling Polden
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| Posted: Wed 14 Dec, 2005 6:37 am Post subject: |
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Another neat feature for the surcote/tunic is folded front/rear gussets....
These are a bit complicated to explain...
you can see them on the picture of my kit...
I'll try to put together a explanation, that is simple and comprehensive enough to post... 
"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
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Hisham Gaballa
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| Posted: Wed 14 Dec, 2005 11:02 am Post subject: |
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| Elling Polden wrote: | Another neat feature for the surcote/tunic is folded front/rear gussets....
These are a bit complicated to explain...
you can see them on the picture of my kit...
I'll try to put together a explanation, that is simple and comprehensive enough to post... |
Maybe you need to start your own thread and share photographs of your kit with the rest of us. 
I look forwards to seeing it 
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Wed 14 Dec, 2005 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| Hisham Gaballa wrote: | Maybe you need to start your own thread and share photographs of your kit with the rest of us.
I look forwards to seeing it |
As do I!
Elling,
I see what you mean about the gores in your surcoat. That detail adds a nice touch of depth to the garment. I'd never noticed that before.
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Jeff Hsieh
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| Posted: Wed 14 Dec, 2005 11:16 am Post subject: |
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| Aaron Schnatterly wrote: | These are not the clearest of pics for illustrating the added/dropped ring method of loosening/tightening maille that I used to taper my sleeves, but it's the best I can do, at least for now.
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Thanks for the pictures and explanation, Aaron. It all looks like a jumble right now, but I'm sure it will fall into place when I actually start weaving. Just curious, do you ever have a problem with rings coming out of the armpits with butted mail? Whenever I lift my arms over my head I swear I can hear the whole hauberk straining.
"Tuitio fidei et obsequium pauperum."
- The Knights Hospitaller, 1130 AD
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Wed 14 Dec, 2005 11:33 am Post subject: |
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What Aaron's posted is a pretty good illustration of the expansion method, something I've become very familiar with over the last few months. 
Adding a link will expand the mail and removing a link in the same fashion will contract it. It may look confusing in a photograph but it's pretty self-explanatory when you have it laid out in front of you. At least with butted mail it's easy to fix a mistake without waisting material. Unfortunately with riveted mail you're immediately past the point of no return!
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Aaron Schnatterly
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| Posted: Wed 14 Dec, 2005 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Jeff Hsieh wrote: | | Thanks for the pictures and explanation, Aaron. It all looks like a jumble right now, but I'm sure it will fall into place when I actually start weaving. Just curious, do you ever have a problem with rings coming out of the armpits with butted mail? Whenever I lift my arms over my head I swear I can hear the whole hauberk straining. |
With 3/8 ID 14 g butted maille, I've never had a problem with that, no. I have seen others who did, but their "pits" were too tight.
As for it looking like a giant, convoluted mess, yeah, it is until it isn't. It frustrates me to no end when someone who's done a craft for so long talks to someone trying to gain an understanding and simply turns their back on them with the statement "go do it yourself and see". That said, go do it yourself... but keep me in mind... shoot me a PM or an email and I'll try to help. I can't get better pics now, won't be able to for a while, but I will get around to it if you or anyone else is interested.
Patrick is right, though, the process is really simple - but you have to intimately know the 4:1 basic pattern dead cold first. The pictures are really clear for him because he already knows what to expect to see... less so for someone who doesn't. Spend some time looking at them, though... it will come to you.
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Aaron Schnatterly
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| Posted: Wed 14 Dec, 2005 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Patrick Kelly wrote: | | Hisham Gaballa wrote: | Maybe you need to start your own thread and share photographs of your kit with the rest of us.
I look forwards to seeing it |
As do I! |
Mark me down as "interested" as well...
| Patrick Kelly wrote: | Elling,
I see what you mean about the gores in your surcoat. That detail adds a nice touch of depth to the garment. I'd never noticed that before. |
Closes it in, but really free in movement. Agreed, this is well done. I'd like to do an alternative set of outer clothes to go with the kit... this is a good possibility.
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Addison C. de Lisle
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| Posted: Wed 14 Dec, 2005 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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Tsk tsk Aaron, that mail's not riveted...
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Aaron Schnatterly
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| Posted: Wed 14 Dec, 2005 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Addison C. de Lisle wrote: | | Tsk tsk Aaron, that mail's not riveted... |
Yeah, ya punk... come here and say that... 
Kidding aside, nope, it's not... but it's very likely the last bit of my own personal maille that isn't... from now on, I'll probably be stepping up in effort and authenticity... Patrick estimated 600 or so hours to modify his riveted bits... mine was around 400 hours to create from nothing but spools of wire. Riveted is a major investment in time...
For the upcoming Gothic and 16th C armours, I'll be using voiders and a "skirt" of riveted, available commercially, and modifying them to suit.
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Bob Burns
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| Posted: Wed 14 Dec, 2005 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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Very Nice Aaron and once again, what an awesome year on swords etc!
Elling, love your kit too!
Bob
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Wed 14 Dec, 2005 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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Jeff,
It took me a while but I finally found something on-line that explains expansion and contraction. I think this may help you.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/trevor.barker/fa...r/mail.htm
I only had to wade through a few hundred websites of mail bikinis and other assorted jewelry.
Aaron is correct when he says I have an advantage when looking at those photos. I glad I'd done several butted mail projects before tackling the riveted stuff. Already having a grasp on the basic pattern made it much easier for me.
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Elling Polden
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| Posted: Thu 15 Dec, 2005 12:22 am Post subject: |
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I'll get along to it as soon as i get my hands on a digital camera.
"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
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Carl Goff
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| Posted: Thu 15 Dec, 2005 1:58 am Post subject: |
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| Patrick Kelly wrote: |
I only had to wade through a few hundred websites of mail bikinis and other assorted jewelry.
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Wade's hardly the right term for an enjoyable task like that.
Unless, y'know, the models were ugly.
And Aaron, that kit is absolutely gorgeous! I'm in awe of the amount of labor you put into that thing, especially hand-weaving the links out of wire. I tried that once and then promptly started ordering them online.
Oh, East of sands and sunlit gulf, your blood is thin, your gods are few;
You could not break the Northern wolf and now the wolf has turned on you.
The fires that light the coasts of Spain fling shadows on the Eastern strand.
Master, your slave has come again with torch and axe in his right hand!
-Robert E. Howard
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