myArmoury.com - Been working on a new sword design.

Posts: 342 Location: Simmesport, LA

Wed 13 Sep, 2006 3:31 pm

Size & Stats

Martin Wallgren wrote:

That is damned big! Have you considered the stats on that. The Baron is a big sword, but this is a monster. Would have a bladewith of something like 4" to 5" and a blade more than a 4 feet long... jeeeezzz.... Hope you are a big strong guy if you wanna swing that Godzilla of a sword.

The scale you see would yield the following dimensions:
Overall Length : 65"
Blade Length: 46.5"
Blade width: 3.34" at widest point where it meets the cross
Handle Length (incl Pommel): 17"

The blade tapers fairly quickly and with some distal taper I am not worried about the blade being over heavy ( i.e. 7-9lbs). However, these measurements are before a smith determins what proportions will make the sword function optimally. The blade or handle or both may need to be shortened to get the harmonics correct. This is where a smith with experience comes in and where one must submit to the opinions and design changes said smith suggests. It is not good to fall in love too deeply with a design or stats as the sword itself will dictate much of this. I am hoping the entire rig will come in between 5-7lbs with somewhere around 6lbs being super. I have been told I ama big, strong guy so all that powerlifting over the years should be considered training for this sword :D I am 6'4" so my heigh will not be an issue...I hope!

Joel

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Jean Thibodeau

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Posts: 8,310 Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada

Wed 13 Sep, 2006 3:48 pm

Well my A & A twohander is around 6 pounds and is holdable with one hand, not sure how practical it would be to use it onehanded and how fast recovery would be though: So at the size you have of 46" blade like the A & A, the weight could be credibly held to 6 pounds even if the blade starts wider. The profile taper is greater and hollow grinding + fuller should help keep the weight down without being too light and whippy. The maximum width is for only a few inches anyway so I don't think that in itself means that the weight will be excessive.

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Bryce Felperin

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Posts: 552 Location: San Jose, CA

Wed 13 Sep, 2006 4:54 pm

Re: Size & Stats

Joel Whitmore wrote:

The scale you see would yield the following dimensions:
Overall Length : 65"
Blade Length: 46.5"
Blade width: 3.34" at widest point where it meets the cross
Handle Length (incl Pommel): 17"

The blade tapers fairly quickly and with some distal taper I am not worried about the blade being over heavy ( i.e. 7-9lbs). However, these measurements are before a smith determins what proportions will make the sword function optimally. The blade or handle or both may need to be shortened to get the harmonics correct. This is where a smith with experience comes in and where one must submit to the opinions and design changes said smith suggests. It is not good to fall in love too deeply with a design or stats as the sword itself will dictate much of this. I am hoping the entire rig will come in between 5-7lbs with somewhere around 6lbs being super. I have been told I ama big, strong guy so all that powerlifting over the years should be considered training for this sword :D I am 6'4" so my heigh will not be an issue...I hope!

Joel

Somehow the term "bearing sword" comes to mind. :lol:

It does look like it will be a beautiful two handed sword though.

BTW, the problem with heavy sword weight is not using it one-handed or carrying it, but rather in using it without your arms falling off during an extended fight. There's a reason that they paid two-handed sword wielders double-pay to break up those pike formations. :-)

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J. Bedell

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Posts: 226 Location: Maryland, USA

Wed 13 Sep, 2006 5:44 pm

Wow, looking at the stats I just realized how big it will be. That's a massive sword! I can't wait to see it in steel.

-James

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Joel Whitmore

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Posts: 342 Location: Simmesport, LA

Wed 13 Sep, 2006 7:00 pm

Re: Size & Stats

Bryce Felperin wrote:

Joel Whitmore wrote:

The scale you see would yield the following dimensions:
Overall Length : 65"
Blade Length: 46.5"
Blade width: 3.34" at widest point where it meets the cross
Handle Length (incl Pommel): 17"

The blade tapers fairly quickly and with some distal taper I am not worried about the blade being over heavy ( i.e. 7-9lbs). However, these measurements are before a smith determins what proportions will make the sword function optimally. The blade or handle or both may need to be shortened to get the harmonics correct. This is where a smith with experience comes in and where one must submit to the opinions and design changes said smith suggests. It is not good to fall in love too deeply with a design or stats as the sword itself will dictate much of this. I am hoping the entire rig will come in between 5-7lbs with somewhere around 6lbs being super. I have been told I ama big, strong guy so all that powerlifting over the years should be considered training for this sword :D I am 6'4" so my heigh will not be an issue...I hope!

Joel

Somehow the term "bearing sword" comes to mind. :lol:

Well Bryce I don't think it will be a bearing sword. The A&A 15th century two -hander was a sword designed for war. I have that one and it is a huge blade for sure but definitely manageable as Jean stated above. This one would only be a tad wider at the flared base and a longer handle than that one. The A&A sword is based on an actual sword in the Wallace Collection A474. If you think this sword is masssive, there are examples of Renaissance two-handers even longer. This article was published on the AARMA website a few years back and shows the weights and sizes of scores of 2-handers.
http://www.thearma.org/essays/2HGS.html . Taking an average of 20 of these swords that are within 2" of the length of my design one comes out with an average weight of 6.15pounds with an average length of 64.15"

Joel

Last edited by Joel Whitmore on Thu 14 Sep, 2006 8:52 am; edited 1 time in total

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Joel Whitmore

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Posts: 342 Location: Simmesport, LA

Thu 14 Sep, 2006 7:58 am

Sword size and Use

I was thinking about the comments made by Bryce and got to looking at contemparary sources. While everyone sees a two-hander and auromatically thinks the only use for such a sword would be to take on pikes, this doens;t appear to be true. The rare 15th centruy German fechtbuch,called "Goliath" shows illustrations of fencing with swords that look proportionally in size to the one I have designed( depending onthe size of the people depicted using them). The text of Jörg Wilhalm shows some very large swords beign used as does Albrecht Duerer's fechtbuch art. I also recommend the text by Hans Talhoffer to see actual dencing with large swords. Vadi depicts this too. While we can perhaps debate how large these swords actually were, surely we can agree there was a fencing style for swords of this size and proportion. Clearly this fencing did not limit itself to loping off pike heads nor was it the sole domain of "shock troops" of the late medieval or renaissnace battlefield.
I would guess that this topic deserves its own thread but I wanted to clear up what seems to be a misconception.

Joel

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Illustration from the 15th centruy German fechtbuch,called "Goliath"

Last edited by Joel Whitmore on Thu 14 Sep, 2006 2:38 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Bryce Felperin

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Posts: 552 Location: San Jose, CA

Thu 14 Sep, 2006 11:08 am

Re: Sword size and Use

Joel Whitmore wrote:

I was thinking about the comments made by Bryce and got to looking at contemparary sources. While everyone sees a two-hander and auromatically thinks the only use for such a sword would be to take on pikes, this doens;t appear to be true. The rare 15th centruy German fechtbuch,called "Goliath" shows illustrations of fencing with swords that look proportionally in size to the one I have designed( depending onthe size of the people depicted using them). The text of Jörg Wilhalm shows some very large swords beign used as does Albrecht Duerer's fechtbuch art. I also recommend the text by Hans Talhoffer to see actual dencing with large swords. Vadi depicts this too. While ca can perhaps debate how large these swords actually were, surely we can agree there was a fencing style for swords of this size and proportion. Clearly this fencing did not limit itself to loping off pike heads nor was it the sole domain of "shock troops" of the late medieval or renaissnace battlefield.
I would guess that this topic deserves its own thread but I wanted to clear up what seems to be a misconception.

Joel

Actually I really would like to see a thread on the use of two-handed swords as opposed to long swords. Though some in the SCA love these things as general weapons I really haven't heard much about them being used except as specialty tools in battle or as bearing swords. I'm sure they were used in training at the time, but I really wonder if they were used much for anything else seriously?

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Joel Whitmore

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Posts: 342 Location: Simmesport, LA

Sun 24 Sep, 2006 8:03 am

Finish beating the dead horse?

Thanks for all the input on the sword. I finally have what appears to be a workable design and pommel. Next week I will contact several smiths I have in mind and see what they say. I would love for the eventual smith to do an article on the making of this sword from start to finish so people could see what is involved in such and endeavor. So we'll see.

Joel

Attachment: 25.88 KB
Final design with pommel [ Download ]

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Alex Oster

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Posts: 410 Location: Washington and Yokohama

Sun 24 Sep, 2006 8:41 am

Sweeeeeeeeeet. I love the blade design, though the semi fantasy look is almost (almost) beyond my taste. I hope it works out for you, it's a beauty

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Joel Whitmore

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Posts: 342 Location: Simmesport, LA

Sun 24 Sep, 2006 6:17 pm

Thanks Alex

Alex Oster wrote:

Sweeeeeeeeeet. I love the blade design, though the semi fantasy look is almost (almost) beyond my taste. I hope it works out for you, it's a beauty

Thanks Alex,

There is no known historical example of this one. I guess it's a hodge podge of different historical swords. It was very cool the way everyone pitched in and gave me advice, taking me in new directions. HOpefully by midweek I'll have more to share.

Joel

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