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Peter Bosman




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PostPosted: Sun 26 Nov, 2006 7:17 am    Post subject: Renaissacne pistol holders         Reply with quote

Encountered these at a French sellier.

http://www.sellerie-phoenix.com/media/hussard1.jpg

For me they make stylish and at the same time practical bottle holders to go with my ecuyer- and gardian- saddles.

VERY well made.

HC
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Gordon Frye




PostPosted: Tue 28 Nov, 2006 9:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Peter;

Those indeed are very nice holsters. There more 18th/19th Century in style than 16th or 17th, but there really wasn't all that great a difference in them other than length. The biggest difference is that the later holsters had a "saddle" between them to hang over either the pommel of the saddle, or the neck of the horse and kept the two holsters together. Renaissance and Baroque holsters tended to be separate and slung by a belt or loop to a ring on the saddle.

Here is a coule of photos of a pair of holsters belonging to a friend of mine, modern of course. They are of mid-17th Century design and as you can see quite similar to the one's you are interested it, other than some small details.

BTW, I've found that the 19th Century style holsters are just right for either a bottle of water, or better yet a bottle of wine. I shall assume that the bigger ones work just as well, maybe better. More wine! A loaf of bread in one, a bottle of wine in the other, and the day is all set! Big Grin

I hope these help!

Cheers!

Gordon



 Attachment: 72.5 KB, Viewed: 6514 times
lockholsters.jpg


 Attachment: 107.43 KB, Viewed: 6513 times
lockholster1.jpg


"After God, we owe our victory to our Horses"
Gonsalo Jimenez de Quesada
http://www.renaissancesoldier.com/
http://historypundit.blogspot.com/
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Peter Bosman




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PostPosted: Wed 29 Nov, 2006 11:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thx for the pictures Gordon.

In France originals fairly regularly turn up from the 18th century and later. Very reasonably priced too but the problem is they are always quite ... euhm... well used AND it would be a bit of a sin to use them up as that is what would happen.
I also have a nice, late 19th century, riding stick now that I do routinely use. The wood is quite resiliant and on the extreme trips I take the black ones I made myself. Though probably less strong they are easily replaced and the original is not.

I like to enjoy my wine but unfortunately this does not mix at all wel with the riding I do, thus water it needs to be unfortunately. In summer say 1˝ litres of it is nothing of luxury during a sunny afternoon ride.
I carry a bottle on either side for balance in moist isolating containers. It will not stay cold but that is not what you want anyway and the air passing the wet bags ensures that evaporation heat keeps the contents comfortably cool. It looks plain TACKY though....
I do not like (read, my horses do not) riding with a breastpiece so the connecting flap comes in very handy. An accurate period look is not my main worry, not any worry in fact Wink
The riding jacket I often wear very clearly has a modern collar and that is quite allright with me. I simply like the general style and also the malibaud saddles support my way of riding very well. The pistol holders match the saddle A LOT better than the plastic foam bottle isolaters that I will hide inside Exclamation
My riding equipment has nothing to do with any period after the demise of the Numidian light cavalry anyway Laughing Out Loud



This is the saddle they will go on,



and me riding in the saddle on the stallion it fits on



They would look nice would they not, with a fox fur xairel behind the cantle...

Saludos,

peter
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Gordon Frye




PostPosted: Wed 29 Nov, 2006 8:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Peter;

VERY nice saddle you have there, I envy you for it! Is the maker Malibaud, or is this the style? Pardon my ignorance on this. I assume that yours is of Spanish manufacture, then? Or French?

One day I would very much like to get a Camargue style saddle. They seem to be made to fit the back well, and look oh-so Mediaeval!

Cheers,

Gordon

"After God, we owe our victory to our Horses"
Gonsalo Jimenez de Quesada
http://www.renaissancesoldier.com/
http://historypundit.blogspot.com/
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Peter Bosman




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PostPosted: Thu 30 Nov, 2006 1:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Malibaud is the brand of french master sellier Aimee Mohammed that started business in 1976.
In 1975 he made an adapted and modernised McClellan-type saddle for Sadko G.Solinksi.
Mr.Solinksi after a period of working as gardian in the camargue acquired an old farm house in the marsh of the Malibaud stream which was called Mas du Malibaud, where he started a trail riding centre, hence the brand name.
They perfected the design over thousands of kilometres and those saddles are still made as the Randonnee and Gardian models.

Closely following the illustrations in the books of Francois Robichon de la Gueriniere and Gaspard de Saunier Solinki designed and Aimee made the first Ecuyer model in 1977. The geometry of this saddle is ideally suited to the a-la-brida (bravante) style Solinski advocated but NOTHING else!
This is the late Sadko G.Solinksi with the first production Ecuyer on his 33 y.o. Ibiss in 2005.




All models are intended to be used a-la-brida style on a iberian type horse. There are ony two tree widths and two seat sizes. The largest seat size is 16˝" as both Sadko and Solinksi consider a larger rider to be too heavy for this type of horse.

The Gardian and even more so the Randonnee has become the golden standard for trail riding in Europe.
The Ecuyer is a secret among professionals but because of the extremely unforgiving geometry rare even among them. Mine was made in 1997 and has #16. They turn up every now and again from fanatical academic riding students that after some years find this saddle it too unforgiving after all and with good reason.
The Malibaud saddles use top quality european eco-leather, the best waxed treads and made by one of the best european saddlers. The quality is second to none and the price-quality unequalled. Just look at these well used stirrups





They are however quite unforgiving. They have to suit you, the horse and your style or you both will be very unhappy and I always use them on a CorrecTOR (see my website under saddles) to make sure for the horse. Do NOT be temped to use a shearling seatsaver to save your own seat as this RUINS the contact and just serves to make matters worse.

We own three. A basic Randonnee, a customised Gardian and the Ecuyer.
This is my 4-year old son with the Randonnee on his mare I painted in the colours of the horse of his favourite Pipi Langkous Laughing Out Loud



He LOVES the saddle. Hacer gymnasia (at a trot) he calls this



To cap a long story off, the Malibaud Ecuyer imo is THE best saddle for sale anywhere BUT if just for the style one should stay well clear of it and buy a portuguesa or one of the more userfriendly models made by http://www.sellerie-phoenix.com/sellesmediev.htm

Have fun!

peter
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Peter Bosman




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PostPosted: Thu 30 Nov, 2006 1:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gordon Frye wrote:
One day I would very much like to get a Camargue style saddle. They seem to be made to fit the back well, and look oh-so Mediaeval!

Well Gordon, they ARE. At least, the original ones. Those are still made but nowadays most are lookalikes adapted to consumer bums.

I rode one for quite a while in the camargue


and yes it is a VERY good saddle for both horse and rider. However, the Camargue is flat as in FLAT



Being Dutch I did not take long to get used to that Laughing Out Loud and the saddle suits this just fine. However it has to be almost custom made to fit you and will NOT be usefull in hilly country.

Can you manage French?
Everything you have always wanted to know about camargue saddles but never dare to ask....
http://www.parc-camargue.fr/Francais/upload/C...xtrait.pdf

Peter
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Gordon Frye




PostPosted: Thu 30 Nov, 2006 9:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you, Peter. It looks as though you have a very nice place there in Andalusia. Reminds me a LOT of California! I guess that's why the Spaniards liked California so much, eh?

Anyway, fascinating information... It will take a while to absorb it all! Eek!

It will also take a while for me and my abysmal French to wade through those websites... Worried

Allons!

Gordon

"After God, we owe our victory to our Horses"
Gonsalo Jimenez de Quesada
http://www.renaissancesoldier.com/
http://historypundit.blogspot.com/
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Peter Bosman




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Location: Andalucia
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PostPosted: Thu 30 Nov, 2006 9:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gordon Frye wrote:
Andalusia. Reminds me a LOT of California! I guess that's why the Spaniards liked California so much, eh?

Well, the other way around maybe Wink

Same thing with us. We enjoyed the panamenian azuera peninsula a lot and when we asked ourselves WHAT exactly we like so much about it, found we had the original within the European Community Idea Quite a detour to discover andalucia Laughing Out Loud

About the French sites, simply do dare to ask Exclamation

Saludos,

peter
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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Thu 30 Nov, 2006 2:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gordon Frye wrote:
Thank you, Peter. It looks as though you have a very nice place there in Andalusia. Reminds me a LOT of California! I guess that's why the Spaniards liked California so much, eh?

Anyway, fascinating information... It will take a while to absorb it all! Eek!

It will also take a while for me and my abysmal French to wade through those websites... Worried

Allons!

Gordon


Gordon;

If you need some quicky translation from French of that site or have questions you know how to find me. Wink Big Grin Cool

http://www.parc-camargue.fr/Francais/upload/C...xtrait.pdf

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Gordon Frye




PostPosted: Thu 30 Nov, 2006 7:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:

Gordon;

If you need some quicky translation from French of that site or have questions you know how to find me. Wink Big Grin Cool



Jean;

Oh yeah, Duh! Sometimes my brain doesn't engage fully before I post things... Eek!

Cheers!

Gordon

"After God, we owe our victory to our Horses"
Gonsalo Jimenez de Quesada
http://www.renaissancesoldier.com/
http://historypundit.blogspot.com/
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Peter Bosman




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Location: Andalucia
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PostPosted: Sat 02 Dec, 2006 1:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Interesting painting of King Gustavus II Adolphus in the year 1631(30-year war) that is surprisingly accurate even to the point of the absence of his light armoury.



Selle-a-piquer, two fontes de pistoliers, short rapier, light armour and the archetypical a-la-brida (bravante) seat.



Same King after the same battle.

HC
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Gordon Frye




PostPosted: Sat 02 Dec, 2006 8:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Peter;

Here's a photo of the English King's Champion's saddle and equipment. Its from the mid-18th Century, but definitely harkens back to the 16th and 17th Centuries.

Also the man and horse equipment shown in John Cruso's "Militarie Instructions for the Caval'rie" from 1632, showing the same basic saddle. (Sorry for the small size, my larger copy wouldn't attach to the post).

Cheers!

Gordon



 Attachment: 37.05 KB, Viewed: 6221 times
champ_saddle.jpg


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LancerCruso02T.jpg


"After God, we owe our victory to our Horses"
Gonsalo Jimenez de Quesada
http://www.renaissancesoldier.com/
http://historypundit.blogspot.com/
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
Peter Bosman




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PostPosted: Sat 02 Dec, 2006 9:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gordon Frye wrote:

Here's a photo of the English King's Champion's saddle and equipment. Its from the mid-18th Century, but definitely harkens back to the 16th and 17th Centuries.


NICE picture Gordon. Back to the 10th century in fact!
In the intermediate centuries saddles used in shockwarfare some more sturdy protection at the front and likewise support at the rear but for RIDING, hunting and such the saddles did not change much.

The use of brocade was, as you can see, even quite an expense for the well to do of that age. Leather was quite widely used. The paintings of Aelbert Cuyp show saddles in every day use that could just as well be used by Charlemagne and Pepin p.e. Most in leather and suede.

We are being shown a wonderfull exhibition of horsemanship and renaissance riding equipment by the portugese rejoneador Ruiz Fernandez fron Equador on our local Canal Sur right as I write.
Dressed in a 17th-style century purple brocade (black and gold bording, silver silk lined) long riding coat protected from the horses croupe by the fox-fur Xairel behind the suede portugese silla-de-picar.
Oops, the guy got off his horse after the estoque with the rejon but the bull has quite a bit more life in it than he expected and he VERY LUCKILY is thrown over the boarding without a cornada...
Well, they are providing us with good close-ups of the guy and thus his outfit Eek!

This....



saddle is still being made in Portugal, although this...



is standard portugese.

Where we live however ,....



is used by EVERYBODY.

HC
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Gordon Frye




PostPosted: Sat 02 Dec, 2006 9:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Peter;

I've been lusting after the Portuguese Royal Saddle for some time now... one of these days, when I get a spare 2K euro's I can blow, I'll be getting one! Big Grin

For now, the standard Portuguese saddle will have to do, however. Worried

Here's a picture of a restored Italian arming saddle ("sillas de armas") made in the 16th Century.

Allons!

Gordon



 Attachment: 27.63 KB, Viewed: 6098 times
Italian%20Saddle16th%20Cent.jpg


"After God, we owe our victory to our Horses"
Gonsalo Jimenez de Quesada
http://www.renaissancesoldier.com/
http://historypundit.blogspot.com/
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
Peter Bosman




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PostPosted: Sat 02 Dec, 2006 11:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wow, THAT - IS - BEAUTIFULL!!

Fortunately Gordon, for all but outright jousting the lower front and rear supports on the portugesa are a lot more practical and for all but display and renaissance-style streched forward legs the thy rolls on the roll are a pain in the..... thy.
For good reason all portugese rejoneadores use a standard portugesa.
The portugesa is also a lot more forgiving as to riding style than say the malibaud ecuyer, therefor not a bad choice. No, not a bad choice AT ALL!
Now, if ypu nevertheless covet the royale as a second saddle, look out for one used. Like the ecuyer, they do turn up occasionally. This Deuber is on ebay right now



Peter
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Gordon Frye




PostPosted: Sun 03 Dec, 2006 9:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Peter Bosman wrote:
Wow, THAT - IS - BEAUTIFULL!!

Fortunately Gordon, for all but outright jousting the lower front and rear supports on the portugesa are a lot more practical and for all but display and renaissance-style streched forward legs the thy rolls on the roll are a pain in the..... thy.
For good reason all portugese rejoneadores use a standard portugesa.
The portugesa is also a lot more forgiving as to riding style than say the malibaud ecuyer, therefor not a bad choice. No, not a bad choice AT ALL!
Now, if ypu nevertheless covet the royale as a second saddle, look out for one used. Like the ecuyer, they do turn up occasionally. This Deuber is on ebay right now



Peter


Thanks Peter. Now why did you have to tell me that this saddle is on ebay???? Eek!

Cheers!

Gordon

"After God, we owe our victory to our Horses"
Gonsalo Jimenez de Quesada
http://www.renaissancesoldier.com/
http://historypundit.blogspot.com/
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
Peter Bosman




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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2007 12:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gordon Frye wrote:
Peter;

Those indeed are very nice holsters. There more 18th/19th Century in style than 16th or 17th, but there really wasn't all that great a difference in them other than length. The biggest difference is that the later holsters had a "saddle" between them to hang over either the pommel of the saddle, or the neck of the horse and kept the two holsters together. Renaissance and Baroque holsters tended to be separate and slung by a belt or loop to a ring on the saddle.


In the end I decided simply to get on with it and make my own the way I want them.



It is suspended from a D-ring on the front of the saddle.
I have sown a flap in the joining seam at the rear of the holster which goes under the side-panel of the saddle to the tie-straps to support it.
In the foto there is a 500 cl. water bottle carried in the holster, which júst dissappears completely out of sight.

It is very functional and I am going to make the companion for the RHS.

The leather is very good quality and will obtain the same colour as the saddle in a few months time.

What a pity there is no way I can ride with firing pistols over here. On the other hand that is a good thing as it prevents me to become tempted and spend too much money on something with no functional value to mé.
Maybe I will have a closer look at the Denix replicas to see if I can make them produce a flash and a puff of smoke.

Peter
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Gordon Frye




PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2007 12:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bravo, Peter. Always best to get exactly what you want, even if you have to make it yourself. Happy

Peter Bosman wrote:
[Maybe I will have a closer look at the Denix replicas to see if I can make them produce a flash and a puff of smoke. Peter


And then for the joys of training your horses to deal with "The Smoke Monster"! But heck, just one more aspect of training, and once they're used to that, most everything else is old hat. Cool

Cheers!

Gordon

"After God, we owe our victory to our Horses"
Gonsalo Jimenez de Quesada
http://www.renaissancesoldier.com/
http://historypundit.blogspot.com/
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Peter Bosman




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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2007 2:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well Gordon, just took a peek at the site of the Middlesex people and by gawd that German shooter is jaw dropping!!!!

Maybe I will drop by the local hunting headman to ask much rolls of red tape one needs and knowing spanish burocracy it will a mighty box full of rolls.
I am not a stickler for the rules but it is simply impossible to buy the basics without a license over here.

What is the 'height' of your cannon btw. From underside trigger guard to top hammer in its lowest positon. After all
I have made my holster to hold a bottle, not a gun Laughing Out Loud

Oh and my horses are just about bomb proof. The town bode lóves to shoot réally loud 'rockets' up at every opportunity. Originally those were meant to inform the people in the countryside of an upcoming important event in the village. You can hear the boom clearly up to some 5 miles away. He will launch them whenever, wherever, however, thus also say 20 feet behind your horse.
Also they are used to local hunters shooting and those are a whole lot louder than bp gun.
The will sure enough need to get used to thát specific raket but they will Wink

The name of he village is 'Villanueva del Trabuco' and 'trabuco' means blunderbuss. I guess about half the town has a replica hanging on the wall Razz
If there is ANY town where you should be able to ride with flintlock pistols in you holsters it would be this one.
Now the legend is that the name originates from a resettled catholic Dutch inkeeper seeing off local 'badoleros' with a trabuco some three centuries ago. Being of Dutch origins that should practically give the ríght to should it not Wink

Peter
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Gordon Frye




PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2007 2:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Peter;

That's a GREAT story! "Dutch Innkeeper defies local bandito's with Blunderbuss"! I agree, it pretty much guarantee's that you should be able to have one, and carry it throughout the countryside on your travels! We'll just hope that the local guardia civil agree's with us... Big Grin

I know that in MOST parts of the world, the regulations on black powder arms are significantly less obtrusive than for more modern arms, so we can hope that Spain is no different in that regard. (Not many folks are interested in loading up a flintlock to try to take on the local gendarmes, who are usually armed with sub-machine guns, I would imagine.) But there are also other options. I believe that Middlesex Village folks can do this, and I know that the people at Loyalist Arms in Canada as a matter of course do, but you can have most of the flintlocks shipped to you without the touch-hole (connecting the flash-pan with the main charge) being drilled out. No touch-hole, not legally a firearm, since it's just a piece of pipe in a wooden stock at that point. So that might be an option if the red tape is too cumbersome to wade through. Send either folks an email, I'm sure they'd love to help you out. Cool

And indeed, with that much racket going on in your village, I guess your horses ARE pretty well bomb-proof! Mine don't particularly enjoy the rockets and fireworks of the Fourth of July here, nor New Year's, but get through it. I've shot off of my big boy Woody, but he get's figetty when I start pulling out pistols and cocking them, though. We're working on it, slow but sure...

Oh, on my "English Lock Pistol", the distance from the top of the screw on the "cock" to the bottom of the trigger guard is just shy of 6" (about 15cm). I hope this is of some help in determining if one will fit in your holster!

Good luck!

Cheers,

Gordon

"After God, we owe our victory to our Horses"
Gonsalo Jimenez de Quesada
http://www.renaissancesoldier.com/
http://historypundit.blogspot.com/
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger


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