[Joel Chesser]

I agree, much better, though, having an affinity for cutting swords I will miss that about it. Maybe have two swords with the same hilt, one a cutter the other thruster? The blade almost looks type XVIII to me.

[Sonny Suttles]

Thanks Dan,
It might still need a few tweaks but I like the direction overall myself. But it the customers whose opinion matter most. The blade will be 1060 with steel fittings and a leather wrapped wood handle. It will come with a leather wrapped wood core scabbard with metal chape.

[Sonny Suttles]

Hi Joel, I feel pretty confident referring to this as a XVa
see: http://www.myArmoury.com/feature_oakeshott2.html

There will many other redesigns and plenty of cutters to choose from.

Sonny

[Sonny Suttles]

Some of the redesigns will be quite simple. Take the Henry V for example:
I have attached a quick sketch to show the new prototype
[/img]

[John Facundus]

I would be hesitant to buy another sword that doesn't use the techniques Albion uses for construction. The peened crossguards and pommel construction is just durable, even with my sometimes inferior cutting techniques. No rattle, no loose parts etc...I collect a fair number of swords and play with them all, I don't want one that cant be used, no matter how cool, historic appearance etc...Thankyou for listening to us customers/ users , I look forward to trying your weapons.

[Jeremiah Swanger]

[Jeremiah Swanger]

[Jonathan Blair]

I'm not holding my breath.

Last time a "we want you to give us your input for our new/revised sword line" request went out here (that Hank Reinhart collaboration), the recommendations and, later, the complaints made were, I felt, largely ignored. We, the consumers, often make largely unrealistic demands ($200 high quality Albion clones, every possible sword type and hilt configuration known to man, and the like), while you, the producers, make what you think are realistic historical weapons with little or no research into what a historical weapon looks/feels/handles like that disappoint in the end. Then, you'll sit and defend the thick 6-inch long ricassos and use of suede on sword grips while we complain how ahistorical the sword is and make futile suggestions on how to improve a $150 sword.

Do your homework. Go to some museums, and ask nicely to handle some originals. Photograph it, weigh it, trace it, handle it, make love to it if you have to, to get a historical weapon that you can be proud of. Don't just go off a grainy photograph in some dusty book of sword arcana to design your product. Finally, if you honestly want our opinions, USE THEM! If not, don't act all surprised when we complain about your product after you've ignored what we've said.

Frankly, I think that what I've seen of the Signature line is very promising and the Practical line seems to be a transplant of the worthy ATrim line. Perhaps you should focus on these rather than "spreading the butter" too thin.

[Sonny Suttles]

Well Jonathan, The base Valiant Armoury line that was in place when I bought the brand has never been well received in this community. In fact it has been ridiculed to the point of being a non factor in conversation of swords on this and other forums. I planned from day one to make wholesale changes to this line and came to this site for input. That original request eventually led to The VA/Trim/Fletcher collaborations on the Practical and Signature lines we are working on. The base models need badly to be redone. I am seeking and finding very positive input from this forum. Some of the advice and suggestions I will use while others are impractical for the base price range I am discussing. I would asked you to step back and realize that the base line I am redoing here is a sub 300 sword. A person like yourself obviously has a higher standard for swords. Bravo! I appreciate that and that is why you probably make more decerning choices on your purchases. It sounds like you are not my target market. But that is why I need to hear from you anyway. I am NOT Albion. They do just fine on their own and have a wonderful and well deserved positive reputation here and other places. I am trying to find a niche for Valiant Armoury that in the end may not be purchased by someone like yourself but it is my hope that we come up with something that is not ridiculed by the higher end sword enthusiast. I would never try to sell a Chevy to a person who prides himself on driving a Lexus or Mercedes Benz. It doesn't mean you can get input from the Benz owner when redesigning your new Chevy.

Sonny

[Dan Dickinson]

Sonny, I love the changes to the Henry V. However, in light of the attempt to keep things affordable which features might you have to cut? Let me first ask, is that supposed to be hollow grinding on the Longsword and the Henry V? If that is and you could do a good job at the chosen price point then I heartily salute you. However, if you need to cut some features in order to attain the price point then I for one would rather have the hollow grinding sacrificed rather than correct distal taper etc.
Also,if features are needing to be sacrificed I think personally (and I'm assuming many others among us) would rather have a structurally sound sword that could benefit from a little self improvement (a grip re-wrap, re-polishing of hilt components etc) rather than a nice looking but ill-balanced sword that's too whippy or suffers from chronically loose hilt furniture etc.
Also in the interest of making things more easily done, the cross in the pommel inset of the Henry V was simply painted, so it really doesn't need to be incised.

Thanks again for taking suggestions,
Dan

[Corey D. Sullivan]

Sonny, I applaud the attempt to improve your base line of swords. It's been said before, but many of the details that go into making a more accurate replica would cost the same or even less then ignoring them.

For instance, peened construction. How much does it cost to thread all the tangs and pommels when peening can be done easily?

I for one would very much like to see a nice solid XVa hand and a half from the last half of the 14th century, that is stiff as a steel bar without handling like one, but is sub $300. I have yet to see this. MRL's XVa's all suffer from extreme whippyness or poor balance.

Your Black Prince sword is one that I see that could do with a complete overhaul. It looks nothing like the original, and it weighs too much.

http://www.valiant-armoury.com/catalog/txt_54-073.html

http://www.myArmoury.com/view.html?features/pic_spotxv11.jpg

I for one would be pleased with a more or less generic type XVa instead of a replica of that particular sword. Arms and Armour have it well covered.

There are many examples that have simple crossguards and pommels. However, they shouldn't be bulky. That is one of the biggest turnoffs for me as far a low-cost replica is concerned. However, the blade is the important bit. It needs to be stiff!


Or course, if one of Gus and Christian's designs for the signature line is a nice XVa, then I would be very pleased.


Oh, and I third a kreigsmesser that's less then the Albion, but more accurate then the Cold Steel one.

[Shayan G]

Congratulations on your new endeavor, and thank you for taking our input!

I'm a bit of a niche buyer since I only have so much money to spend on swords. I love Irish ring-hilts, and Viking era blades. Those have been adequately covered by previous suggestions however.

I'd like to see a more accurate Middle-Eastern or Central Asian saber or "scimitar." It's sort of my personal crusade for swords at the moment! Cold Steel and Windlass both have one, but they are far from historically accurate. The Valiant Armoury scimitar is also rather ahistorical, though looks like a fun little blade.
http://www.armsofvalour.com/miva/merchant.mv?...ry_Code=MB

I firmly believe a market exists for historically accurate and durable Middle Eastern swords--it would appeal to people with a fondness for cavalry blades, an interest in Crusading weaponry, a love of curved blades in general, a need for accurate reenactment gear, or a taste for the exotic.

Production could be inexpensive as well utilizing a simple blade design and hilt. Perhaps a marriage of this kind of hilt and a gently curving saber blade? It would be historically applicable to early Saracen and Turco-Mongolian blades both, covering a wide historical and geographic range. Thus it could be accurately marketed either as a Muslim sword of the early to middle crusades or a saber of the conquering Mongolian hordes!
http://www.alcheminc.com/turkichilts.jpg

Or maybe some other design like the swords attached below?

Is any of this plausible? Do you think Valiant would be interested in trying it?

Thanks again for your time!

[Sonny Suttles]

Actually that is a Cas Iberia Scimitar. Valiant Armoury does not currently offer a scimitar. I have consider this though but need to put much more thought into it.

[Shayan G]

[Sonny Suttles]

My background is in Retail Cutlery sales. I look at these swords in terms of what I think I can sell. The scimitar is not a very popular sword but it is not produced by many makers, other than say pakistan factorys using cheap stainless steel. If a model could hit a minimum demand to justify the mold and casting cost as well as the cost of intial developement then I can justify doing the project. I would have to run some numbers before I could look at doing this sword but anything is possible.

Sonny

[Jonathan Blair]

Sonny, I've owned my fair share of "Chevys" over the years, mostly bought from MRL. And just because you have a "Mercedes" in the garage doesn't mean you won't buy a "Chevy truck" to do the work.
I realize that you are targeting a less expensive sword. I still maintain that a trip or two to the museum to fully examine a piece or two and using that information to create your product will result in a better product. It doesn't have to be a spot-on copy, but some of the Windlass offerings have little or nothing in common with the originals of which they are purported to be copies.

[Sonny Suttles]

Thanks again for your input Jonathan,
While all we can do is try our best within the cost and price structures this base line is limited to, we hope to achieve a product that will be well thought (For it's price range) and provide excellent value for the price. I have no doubt that someone somewhere on this or other forums will rip the final product no matter what we do. I am just trying to minimize this type of response. Sort of a pre-emptive strike by involving the forums. While there is much participation on these forums I would venture that the mass majority of the swords we sell now and will sell have buyers who will never visit this site. But just because they will not visit the forums doesn't mean that they can't benefit from a much improved product influenced by the fine members of this and other forums.

Sonny

[Angus Trim]

Cost, suitability, and practicality are major thoughts on something like this. They have to be, the Chinese have to make a profit too. If the cost of manufacture goes up in China, the retail price here will reflect that in spades........

Practicality may influence these initial drawings as they become three dimensional designs for instance. In my experience, really acute points on sword can sometimes present a problem {well more than one actually}. Educated buyes realize that really acute points aren't really great for cutting, inexperienced folks don't know, and thus don't realize that you need to stay about 4 inches inside the point for any cutting action. "Back in day" when I made several models with really acute points I had several horror stories I could relate, including one gentleman that removed an inch from the tip area when his sword tip hit a steel vice at speed.........{and full power}........

Target price point will also be reflected in how many new things we actually want to throw at the forges.......

There are some things though, that would really benefit with the less expensive labor. After coming back from 4W, I went over my "2nd iteration" of sparring blade designs, and have decided they are definitely relevant. But I don't intend to manufacture them.............

[Roger Hooper]

I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet - if they have, forgive my redundancy.

I think a serious attempt at distil taper in your swords would greatly increase their quality. Nothing turns me off more in a sword than that dead feeling that is caused by a blade that has the same thickness down its length. The sword doesn't have to be less that 2.5 lbs. to be well balanced. I have swords weighing between 3 and 4 lbs. that feel much lighter because they are harmoniously balanced.

I'm sure that the Trim/Fletcher Signature swords have plenty of well calculated distil taper. I hope the process isn't too expensive to incorporate into your cheaper models

If you could do this on your swords, I think it would put you well ahead of Hanwei, MRL, and Del Tin, and others.

[Angus Trim]