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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Sun 25 Dec, 2005 9:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Joachim, so do I find it difficult to find: I thinks I think it's supposed to be the vertical one to the right of the war hammer and to the left of a cluster of other pole arms.

A question of interpretation as the crescent shape below the spear head could be seen as being a S guard but seems to me more likely to be side blades: Would serve a similar function either way in parrying but blades would also have more aggressive uses.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Travis Canaday




Location: Overland Park, Kansas
Joined: 24 Oct 2005

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PostPosted: Sun 25 Dec, 2005 9:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Joachim,

You're not blind...it is just quite hard to see. If you look in the lower right corner of the painting, there is a huddled group of armoured guys with different pikes. The pike at the front the group (furthest left) is your staffsword. Being a large (and dark)painting, these online versions just don't do it justice.

Try this one: http://pages.prodigy.net/eb.ws.rothwell/images/madmeg.jpg

It seems to be a lighter version. Maybe a little easier to see it. I wish I could just show you the close up in my book.

Good luck!

Travis

Travis
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Travis Canaday




Location: Overland Park, Kansas
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PostPosted: Sun 25 Dec, 2005 9:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean,

It is definitely S-shaped. I know what you are saying, but I have an exrteme close up of this painting (even shows the dots/rivets on the tang), and the guard actually has a more dramatic curve then the one Joachim has.

You might need to try and find it at the book store.

Travis

Travis
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Sun 25 Dec, 2005 9:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Travis: OOOOPS, sorry I was commenting on the Durer woodcut posted by Wolfgang while thinking of your comments about the Bruegel painting. Yes hard to see on the Bruegel painting.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Joachim Nilsson





Joined: 29 Sep 2003

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PostPosted: Mon 26 Dec, 2005 8:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Travis,
yeah, I see it now. Interesting. Would be very interesting too see a larger, more detailed version of that painting some day.
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Bob Burns




Location: South Indianapolis IN
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PostPosted: Mon 26 Dec, 2005 11:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I like your Peter Johnsson Staffsword so much that I showed it to my wife, she has a certain amount of appreciation for our passion and thinks it is a God send for someone to be able to find their true passion and fully supports it! Gayle was really impressed with the shape and length of the blade and the S shaped crossguard, said the thought of seeing someone with your weapon would be a most dreaded and formiddable sight. She also knows of the awesome caliber of Peter Johnsson and thinks that you commissioned one very beautiful weapon! She wanted me to tell you this.

We both loved the photography and she is an amateur photographer, she remarked on the eye for detail, geometry and depth was excellent!

Wonderful Weapon!

Bob
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Mon 26 Dec, 2005 8:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bob;

If you go the custom route for a Polearm from A & A take your time to research and find the one ( If you can keep it to just one. Laughing Out Loud ) you really want and the period. A lot of the interesting ones tend to be late 15th to early 16th centuries.

The earlier period ones are not so well know as not that many can be dated to the 12th to 14th century periods.

The later 16th or 17th century ones can be more ceremonial than sturdy fighting weapons.

A nice one is what is called a Scorpion which is like a variant of a Bill: EUROPEAN WEAPONS AND ARMOUR, Ewart Oakeshott, page 54 illustration C at the top of the page.

Also in A GLOSSARY OF THE CONSTRUCTION DECORATION AND USE OF ARMS AND ARMOUR, by george cameron Stone, page 545 " Scorpion 15th century, Italy, Metropolitan Museum.

Or you could have a staff sword made. ( just to get back on topic. Wink )

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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W. Schütz
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Location: Sweden
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PostPosted: Tue 27 Dec, 2005 5:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Fruktansvärt vapen J.N, fruktansvärt vackert, och originellt. Måste vara mycket avigt att tampas mot ett sådant; räckvidd, djupa hugg OCH stötförmåga som en hillebard..
Gentes scitote,
vicine sive remote,
quod claret Suecia
plebeque militia.
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Joachim Nilsson





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PostPosted: Tue 27 Dec, 2005 12:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bob Burns wrote:
I like your Peter Johnsson Staffsword so much that I showed it to my wife, she has a certain amount of appreciation for our passion and thinks it is a God send for someone to be able to find their true passion and fully supports it! Gayle was really impressed with the shape and length of the blade and the S shaped crossguard, said the thought of seeing someone with your weapon would be a most dreaded and formiddable sight. She also knows of the awesome caliber of Peter Johnsson and thinks that you commissioned one very beautiful weapon! She wanted me to tell you this.

We both loved the photography and she is an amateur photographer, she remarked on the eye for detail, geometry and depth was excellent!

Wonderful Weapon!

Bob


Thanks Bob. I really appreciate it. This is one of the weapons in my collection that I'll never part with -that's how much I like it. And yes: I'd think once or twic ebefor egoing up against someone wielding a weapon like this.
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Joachim Nilsson





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PostPosted: Tue 27 Dec, 2005 12:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

W. Stilleborn wrote:
Fruktansvärt vapen J.N, fruktansvärt vackert, och originellt. Måste vara mycket avigt att tampas mot ett sådant; räckvidd, djupa hugg OCH stötförmåga som en hillebard..


Yep. It's a truly versatile weapon. And, if you shorten your grip on the shaft -surprisingly quick too.
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Bob Burns




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PostPosted: Tue 27 Dec, 2005 5:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean, thanks a whole bunch, I do have the Glossary by George Stone, now I know the time period to look at which helps me a whole lot. Yeah, keeping to just one, I don't know if I can. Big Grin You mean I can have only one? Eek! I was just talking to my wife about having changed my mind on the first and primary sword purchase for 2006 from the A & A Edward III to the Durer Bastard Sword, figuring it would be an exact fit between my German Bastard Sword and the English Longsword that I have, then maybe switch to polearms, because she has said something about my having enough swords. To which I responded "Is there such a thing as enough swords"? Big Grin Then I pointed to her 120 some species of plants. Big Grin

Joacham, you are most welcome, that's quite a weapon to be proud of, a real showpiece!

Yeah, I am willing to and do pass up other "wants" in order to be able to add to my collection and or buy books pertaining to this area.

I drive around in an old beater van that runs good, so as to not have car payments and have low cost insurance, so as to provide the money for my collection.

Thanks again Jean and Joacham
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Tue 27 Dec, 2005 9:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Joachim;

Have you done any cutting test with the staff sword or your thoughts on how effective it would be ?

Less cutting power than a halberd axe like head but more than the typical small headed spear, probably similar to a partisan or langue de boeuf.

The guard would seem to have the same usefulness at the wings of a winged spear but much longer, as well as the curves must have special applications. Could the length of the guard be too much at times ? Getting in the way in some applications? Or be taken advantage of by an opponent: Just asking ???

Nice weapon by the way if I didn't already say so sometime before in this 4 page long thread. ( Haven't re-read all the posts so I may be asking things already answered: Although you may have more experience handling it now than when you first posted. )

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Joachim Nilsson





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PostPosted: Wed 28 Dec, 2005 11:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bob Burns wrote:


Joacham, you are most welcome, that's quite a weapon to be proud of, a real showpiece!



It truly is! If a may say so myself. True story here: At a museum in Uppsala they had an exhibition on the remains found in a mass-grave belonging to the Good Friday Battle that took place in Uppsala in 1520. On display were some of the bones themselves and some actual antique weapons from the era (earth- and river-finds). Yessir, bones and blades. Something that intrigues me to no end. Imagine my own surprise when I find myself getting drawn to a certain corner of the exhibition more that to the other areas. A corner that contained a "manequin" dressed up as a Swedish 16th century peasant soldier. The soldier carried this huge reconstructed polearm: the staffsword. When I abandoned the bones to look at the staffsword for the third time I finally realized that I just had to contact the smith who made it. The outcome? Well, I think you know that already. Happy
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Joachim Nilsson





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PostPosted: Wed 28 Dec, 2005 11:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Joachim;

Have you done any cutting test with the staff sword or your thoughts on how effective it would be ?

Less cutting power than a halberd axe like head but more than the typical small headed spear, probably similar to a partisan or langue de boeuf.

The guard would seem to have the same usefulness at the wings of a winged spear but much longer, as well as the curves must have special applications. Could the length of the guard be too much at times ? Getting in the way in some applications? Or be taken advantage of by an opponent: Just asking ???

Nice weapon by the way if I didn't already say so sometime before in this 4 page long thread. ( Haven't re-read all the posts so I may be asking things already answered: Although you may have more experience handling it now than when you first posted. )


Hi Jean,
unfortunately I haven't done any testcutting with it. Yet. I bet Peter would love to hear the results of such a venture. Even though I haven't cut with it yet, I think it's pretty safe to say that your assumptions are probably quite correct though.

I think that for an opponant to be able to take advantage of the guard the wielder must slip up pretty bad. But then again, stranger things have -and do- happen in fighting and combat. The thing to remember is that the weapon was probably used in mass formations, most likely accompanied with other, similar staffswords. All those long cross would, if properly guided, act as a shield against incoming polearms like halberds and whatnot. Shield yourself, and your comrades, with the guard, and then counter with the blade. Either by making short chopping or stabbing motions. Look closely at one of the Dolstein drawing and you'll see a depiction of what I mentioned above: a ranked formation were 95% of the soldiers are carrying staffswords. I bet the landsknechte had a hard time with those. And as long as you're gripping the shaft some distance away fromt he cross it won't really get in the way. At least not in your way. Happy
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Travis Canaday




Location: Overland Park, Kansas
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PostPosted: Wed 28 Dec, 2005 1:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Joachim,

Here is a close-up of the Mad Meg staffsword.



 Attachment: 93.35 KB
close-up staffsword.jpg


Travis
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Travis Canaday




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PostPosted: Wed 28 Dec, 2005 1:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here is another.


 Attachment: 96.18 KB
staffsword.jpg


Travis
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Joachim Nilsson





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PostPosted: Wed 28 Dec, 2005 1:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Travis Canaday wrote:
Joachim,

Here is a close-up of the Mad Meg staffsword.


Thanks Travis! That certainly looks like a staffsword indeed. Very interesting.
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Wed 28 Dec, 2005 2:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Joachim;

Interesting point that the guards of a group of Staff sword wielding fighters could use the guards to deflect the much longer Pikes of a Pike square and leverage them out of line and seriously tangling them up: Others would then close and shop up the Pike square. At least sounds like a good possibility.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Joachim Nilsson





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PostPosted: Wed 28 Dec, 2005 2:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Joachim;

Interesting point that the guards of a group of Staff sword wielding fighters could use the guards to deflect the much longer Pikes of a Pike square and leverage them out of line and seriously tangling them up: Others would then close and shop up the Pike square. At least sounds like a good possibility.


Yes, it does. Just looking at the dimensions of those crosses one can clearly see that they aren't there just for show. And pikes and halberds were what the Swedish 16th Century soldier was most likely to face on the battlefield. Especially since the Danes, as well as other contending Swedes, liked to employ Landsknechte in their armies.
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Aaron Schnatterly




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PostPosted: Wed 28 Dec, 2005 2:55 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Joachim Nilsson wrote:
When I abandoned the bones to look at the staffsword for the third time I finally realized that I just had to contact the smith who made it. The outcome? Well, I think you know that already. Happy

My story is pretty similar to that, actually... funny how this particular smith seems to draw one's attention. Wink

Pretty neat piece, Joachim. I'll have to check it out one of these days.
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