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Hugo Voisine
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 Posted: Thu 01 May, 2008 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | While not an expert on Viking blades I'm not sure where the idea came from that the fuller needs to end under the guard. I don't believe that the termination of the fuller at the hilt is even taken up in Geibig's classification system, nor can I tell from just looking at the photos from my copy of "Swords of the Viking Age" whether or not all of the fullers in the book do terminate under the guard. Some of the swords are so corroded it really is impossible to tell. Plus I'm sure the swords in Ian Peirce's book represent only a small sample of surviving Viking era swords. Just because we haven't seen it doesn't mean that it didn't happen or wasn't made that way. For instance Geibig type 1 blades " . . . often lack a fuller and have flat faces (p.21, SotVA)". All of the type 1 blades in Peirce's book have fullers. |
Maybe historically speaking the fuller doesn't need to end under the guard on all viking swords, but I think that from a marketing point of view, considering the reactions here and pretty much everywhere when a new viking/saxon sword model comes off, this sword would probably sell better if the fuller extended a bit under the guard, or at least had a less abrupt end.
« Que dites-vous ?... C'est inutile ?... Je le sais !
Mais on ne se bat pas dans l'espoir du succès !
Oh ! non, c'est bien plus beau lorsque c'est inutile ! »
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Jason Elrod
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| Posted: Fri 02 May, 2008 3:27 am Post subject: |
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| Hugo Voisine wrote: | | Quote: | | While not an expert on Viking blades I'm not sure where the idea came from that the fuller needs to end under the guard. I don't believe that the termination of the fuller at the hilt is even taken up in Geibig's classification system, nor can I tell from just looking at the photos from my copy of "Swords of the Viking Age" whether or not all of the fullers in the book do terminate under the guard. Some of the swords are so corroded it really is impossible to tell. Plus I'm sure the swords in Ian Peirce's book represent only a small sample of surviving Viking era swords. Just because we haven't seen it doesn't mean that it didn't happen or wasn't made that way. For instance Geibig type 1 blades " . . . often lack a fuller and have flat faces (p.21, SotVA)". All of the type 1 blades in Peirce's book have fullers. |
Maybe historically speaking the fuller doesn't need to end under the guard on all viking swords, but I think that from a marketing point of view, considering the reactions here and pretty much everywhere when a new viking/saxon sword model comes off, this sword would probably sell better if the fuller extended a bit under the guard, or at least had a less abrupt end. |
Hugo. I agree with you completely. This sword will sell better with a slightly modified fuller. I just want people to keep in perspective that this desire for a fuller that extends under the guard seems to be derived more from a modern trend than historical necessity.
Of course looking at the small selection of examples the extended fuller does seem to be farely typical, if not common place. And for most people, especially it seems reenactors, common place is what they want. I guess I'm just someone who appreciates and wants a little more "historical diversity" in modern reproductions.
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J.D. Crawford
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| Posted: Fri 02 May, 2008 4:14 am Post subject: |
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This is getting off the original topic, but I am not yet convinced that abrupt, visible fuller terminals were an historical feature of viking swords. One argument above seemed to be 'we have not seen them, but that does not mean they didn't exist'. Of course that is logically correct, but one can use that to support any claim...including the existence of green eyed dragons with purple wings. This is the realm of faith. The realm of science is the burden of proof - to show that something did/does exist.
So, can anyone cite historical examples of viking swords with fullers like this? Then I will believe.
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Fri 02 May, 2008 4:45 am Post subject: |
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Folks,
Earlier in this thread, Tinker said (several times) that his method of putting the fullers in leaves the abrupt termination, but that the production swords will have fullers that run under the guard. So it's a non-issue.
If anyone wants to discuss historical examples with abrupt fuller terminations, please start a new thread. This one is about this sword. Thank you.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Michael Pearce
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Fri 02 May, 2008 6:31 am Post subject: |
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Thank you Chad! I was getting tired of repeating that...
Michael 'Tinker' Pearce
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Then one night, as my car was going backwards through a cornfield at 90mph, I had an epiphany...
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Ian Hutchison
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| Posted: Fri 02 May, 2008 10:52 am Post subject: |
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Wow, that looks like a great steal for the price range. I have one question though, is the tip of the blade the final version? It just seems a tad pointy.
If so, perhaps i could shape and sharpen the blunt re-enactor.
'We are told that the pen is mightier than the sword, but I know which of these weapons I would choose.' - Adrian Carton de Wiart
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Ben Sweet
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| Posted: Fri 02 May, 2008 11:28 am Post subject: |
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Good looking sword... the only problem I personally have is seeing your makers mark the rune 'T' on a Chinese made sword, will they also have a number on the other side too?
Only a suggestion from a collector/user who owns a 7 of your swords, mark these Chinese made swords differently so it does not confuse collector/users who want to buy a real Michael "Tinker' Pearce custom sword, not every c/t or future c/t is aware of the rune 'T' and number process you use on the other side of the blades you personal make.
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Michael Pearce
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Fri 02 May, 2008 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Ian Hutchison wrote: | Wow, that looks like a great steal for the price range. I have one question though, is the tip of the blade the final version? It just seems a tad pointy.
If so, perhaps i could shape and sharpen the blunt re-enactor. |
There were pointy Viking swords; examples are pretty easy to find.
Negative on reshaping the blunt, though- it has a 2mm rounded edge and it would be almost as much work to turn into a sharp as it would be to grind a new blade- and then the balance etc would be off. You'd be better off rounding the last inch or so of the sharp.
Michael 'Tinker' Pearce
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Then one night, as my car was going backwards through a cornfield at 90mph, I had an epiphany...
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Michael Pearce
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Fri 02 May, 2008 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Ben Sweet wrote: | Good looking sword... the only problem I personally have is seeing your makers mark the rune 'T' on a Chinese made sword, will they also have a number on the other side too?
Only a suggestion from a collector/user who owns a 7 of your swords, mark these Chinese made swords differently so it does not confuse collector/users who want to buy a real Michael "Tinker' Pearce custom sword, not every c/t or future c/t is aware of the rune 'T' and number process you use on the other side of the blades you personal make. |
No worries, Ben- I made this prototype so it has my maker's mark on it. The Chinese swords will NOT have my maker's mark.
Michael 'Tinker' Pearce
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Then one night, as my car was going backwards through a cornfield at 90mph, I had an epiphany...
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Luka Borscak
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| Posted: Sat 03 May, 2008 4:18 am Post subject: |
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[quote="J.D. Crawford"] | Luka Borscak wrote: | | I just looked a bit through my Records of the medieval sword, and there are quite a few swords that have a fuller that begins below the cross, so it shouldn't be a big problem even if you don't change it... |
I think it depends on the type. Which ones were you looking at?
From memory, I don't recall any Viking blades in Ian Pierce's book that show an abrupt visible fuller termination (although I can think of at least one that showed a gradual shallowing toward the guard).
I admit, these were not viking swords. Xa, XIIIa and XIIIb, I think.
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Douglas S
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| Posted: Tue 06 May, 2008 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: Here's the 'Blunt' |
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| Michael Pearce wrote: |
These requirements call for a 2mm rounded edge, a very rounded point and the best 'historical appearance' obtainable within these limits while still remaining in the weight and balance range for period swords of this type. |
Which groups are you conferring with? Regia Anglorum requires 3-5mm.
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Greg Mele
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Tue 06 May, 2008 2:14 pm Post subject: Re: Here's the 'Blunt' |
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| Douglas S wrote: | | Michael Pearce wrote: |
These requirements call for a 2mm rounded edge, a very rounded point and the best 'historical appearance' obtainable within these limits while still remaining in the weight and balance range for period swords of this type. |
Which groups are you conferring with? Regia Anglorum requires 3-5mm. |
Most groups I encountered over the years, particularly those outside of the UK, are 2mm. A 3 - 5mm sword edge is simply absurd.
Greg Mele
Chicago Swordplay Guild
www.chicagoswordplayguild.com
www.freelanceacademypress.com
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This is a standard topic