I'm embarrassed to ask but......
does anyone have the spiel on this Harness from RA Leeds ? I can only find reference to it described as " Royal " .... a bit vague, don't you think ? I realise that I should know this one but it has escaped my research notes thus far.
You help is appreciated as always. ( At least this should be an easy one ! ) :D

Cheers

Merv

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Late 16th- 1591ish by Anton Peffenhauser for Elector Christian I of Saxony. It was to be a gift from his wife to him but he passed away suddenly. Thats about all I remember. Perhaps someone has more info?

RPM

Merv,

This is harness II.186 at the R.A. at Leeds.
As Randall has said , it was a gift, in fact a christmas present, from the Electress Sophia to The Prince-Elector Christian I in 1591. However, the elector died in the September of that year. This is in fact one of a set of twelve identical armours made by the Augsberg armourer Anton Peffhauser. There are several others still in the Electoral Armoury in Dresden.
The harness was formerly owned by the noted collector Clarence H. MacKay.

Other than that, without going digging through the library, I cant tell you much off the top of my head. Hope that it helps a bit anyway.

Regards,

Russ

Hi Merv,

Glad you brought it up. This is probably my official "favourite" harness, although my tastes seem to be tending more towards the 15th century these days. Randall and Russ seem to have covered the basic spiel, however, if you have any more specific questions regarding form, construction etc... please let me know. I love talking about this piece and have done more research on it than any other (not that that's an awful lot).

If anyone out there has pictures of the accompanying pieces from Dresden or elsewhere, I'd love to see them. The only thing that disappoints me about this particular harness is the shape of the back of the helm. If you look at it from side on, it seems particulatly flat and unflattering, on an otherwise spectacular and beautifully proportioned armour. Similar close helms from the same period (and even the same maker), seem much more rounded and stylish to me. I'd like to think that others from the set were different.

Darren.

Don't be embarrassed Merv,

That's what this forum is for- plus I couldn't identify the piece either- though my tastes are 500 years earlier!!

Jeremy

Something about the shape of the close helm and it's neck lames makes me wonder if it is actually an original piece of the set, even though the large rivets and patination match quite well. The seeming lack of gilding/ etching doesn't help things either...

Mr. Austin,

I know what you mean about the rear of the helmet, it is very flat isn't it. I wonder if this is a feature of the later works of his workshop? Peffenhauser lived until the, then, ripe old age of 78, he would have been 64 when the harness in question was made, possibly it wasn't made by him at all, merely in his workshops under his supervision? I have seen the other armours in Dresden, but was so overawed by the sheer quality of the other items in the museum, that I never really paid that much attention to these armours. I didn't even count them, but as memory serves, there are ten of them still at Dresden?? (I don't know where that tid bit came from, it is just something that I seem to remember from somewhere :\ ).
As I do remember though, the Dresden examples seem to be in a better state of preservation than this example, ie the blueing on the breastplate.

Merv,

Never any need to feel embarrased about asking anything here! :)

Regards,

Russ

Saw that at Leeds last week, though I can't remember if I shot pics of it, I do remember reading about the guy taking the big dirt nap before he ever got to wear it. I'll have to check my photo list, but considering in the last 17 days I've shot somewhere around 9,000 (yeah, that's the right number of zeroes) photos, that could take a while.

Hey, thanks guys, this is great input.........Some of you get around a whole lot more than I do and get to actually see this gear, 'cause I am stuck down here at the nether regions of the planet !
I was embarrassed cause making medieval gear is pretty much all I do now although I have been working in wood for quite a while now, but I am just getting back into armouring. I guess I felt I should know this piece. However, having downloaded a further 10Gbs of arms and armour photos over the last few months ( this time sorted by Museums) ....I guess I haven't had time to do much on the study side of things. (I must take opportunity to say however that I have found such a huge treasure trove of items tucked away in Eastern Europe.......some things I have only ever seen in period paintings.......I didn't think they existed today ! )
Anyway......back to this harness.....I too would like to see pics of the similar "Dresden" armours ( 10 you say, Russ !! Wow )....I assume you mean in the Zwinger palace ? I had a look through my files but there's nothing like the Leeds harness there.
Cheers and thanks.....

Merv

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Merv,

Looking through the catalogue of the museum, it appears that they have in fact only got three of them still. One of those, which is illustrated in the book, weighs 18.4 kgs. (40.4 LBS).

This is a fabulous armour. When I was an apprentice, every Saturday would find me in the Tower of London looking at and drawing armour, and this was always one of my favourite pieces.

Merv, as I am such a wimp with computers, if I scan the picture of the one in the catalogue and send it to you via email, perhaps you would be kind enough to post it here for comparative purposes?


Regards,

Russ

Sanks for ze foto, Herr Cannon... :D

Here's a similarly decorated piece from Dresden, also by Peffenhauser.

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Merv,

Yes it is in the Historischen Museum in Dresden, in the old Zwinger Hof. I was fortunate enough to work at the Semper Oper building in 1985, which is right next door! If only I had a camera with me............................ :cry:

Thankyou for adding the picture.

Regards,

Russ

Do you think this may be another piece from the set?

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D.Austin wrote:

Quote:

Do you think this may be another piece from the set?

No, it appears to be quite different from the other two that we know to have been part of the series. As you can see, apart from the colour, the left pauldron is of a different pattern, and the treatment of the decoration on the visor and sights is very different, ( forgetting the tassets which obviously do not belong). It seems probable, that they all had some slight variations in their decoration, (judging from the two pictures that we have), but structurally, they would most likely have been identicle.
Peffenhauser was an extremely productive armourer, and there are many items all decorated in a similar fashion that originated in his workshops. He became enormously wealthy, and quite independent. He ran foul of the various guilds in Augsberg several times, not that it seems to have worried him, he was rich enough that he could 'thumb his nose ' at the guilds. In the end they even had to elect him as a warden of the armourers guild in 1563 !
The Wallace collection have a few armours decorated in similar fashion, made in Augsberg, though not necessarily made by Peffenhauser.

Regards,

Russ

D.Austin wrote:

Quote:

Do you think this may be another piece from the set?

According to the Wallace Collection catalogue from 1962, Sir James Mann says that apart from the R.A. harness and the three in Dresden, there are others from the set in The hermitage in St. Petersberg, the Germanisches museum in Nüremburg and the Arsenal at Cracow, though he doesn't mention how many are at each location.
A.V.B.Norman, in his 1986 supplement to the Wallace Collection catalogues, says that there are also three similarly decorated armours, for man and horse, made for the Elector by Peffenhauser in the Dresden museum.

Russ

Hi Folks,

I stumbled upon this site and found that they had pictures of some of the other armours in the series. On pages two and four you will see several of the armours. I haven't been through the whole site, so there may even be pictures of the rest of them. I just thought that it might be of interest for comparative purposes. Unfortunately they do not say which ones they are, so a little guess work and may be necessary.........................

http://sl-armours.com/eng/viewpatterns/page,4...mours.html

Regards ,

Russ

IIRC, this harness is actually the one now at RA in Leeds. I seem to remember reading that the guard in front of the right shoulder (missing in this photo) was replaced after they acquired it. It's interesting to note too, the difference the pose can make to the armour's appearance. This one looks much more striking now, with just the arms hung a little better.

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