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Chris Artman




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PostPosted: Thu 05 Jun, 2008 1:51 pm    Post subject: Original Thorpe Falchion and Making a Custom Reproduction         Reply with quote

Hi All,

I'm looking for an Albion Vassal owner to help me with a project on a custom Thorpe Falchion commission that has been accepted and taken by Christian Fletcher and Ollin. Essentially, I am going to have much of the essence of the Vassal in this design, and in some ways this project will be closer to the original in that it will use crosses in the guard instead of trefoils. I'm making some minor adjustments to the blade, but I would realy appreciate if someone would take some specific measurements for me of the vassal and also some various pictures beyond what is available at Albion's site. If anyone would be able to do that for me it would be so helpful....

Thanks,

Chris


Last edited by Chris Artman on Wed 18 Jun, 2008 10:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Thu 05 Jun, 2008 1:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Why use the Vassal when you can use the original? I got very complete stats for the Thorpe Falchion several years ago for my review of the Windlass version. See 'em here:
http://www.myArmoury.com/review_mrl_falc.html

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Luka Borscak




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PostPosted: Thu 05 Jun, 2008 1:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Is it possible that it was only 2.5mm thick? I would think it is to thin for a sword, especially single edged sword...
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Chris Artman




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PostPosted: Thu 05 Jun, 2008 2:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank-you.

How interesting, One of my resquest was to lengthen the blade to 31 inches... now I see the original is 31.6... excellent. Haha!

The Vassal is still an elegant piece. you also have to account for blade loss an mass of the original, so mine is going to start at 1.875 width at the hilt and increase to 3 inches maximum.

However, I would still like to have some measurements from the Vassal and some additional pictures of detail on the blade and hilt. Peter J did an outstanding job on the Vassal and I want to incorporate some of the 3 dimensionality and fullers into our design. I think this is going to turn out wonderful....
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Chris Artman




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PostPosted: Thu 05 Jun, 2008 2:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I may have to make some minor tweaks and I may consider going to 32 inches in length since the original is closer to 32, which is a good thing. No doubt the original lost a little length from tip sharpening, so 32" length sounds good.

Sean, thanks a lot, that was very helpful... it did not come up in my search....so helpful!!!



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Chris Artman




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PostPosted: Thu 05 Jun, 2008 4:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

"The replica's pommel is unadorned steel rather than engraved brass, but its length and width closely match the original."

How do we know? Was this from the museum curator? I've never seen a color picture. Do they mention what is engraved?? The Conyers Falcion has a black hawk on one side and three of something else on the other.... Any idea what is engraved on the pommel? Is only the pommel brass? What about the quillons and rest of the hilt?

I have to say, I like the Vassals shape of the quillons better than the original Happy Gonna be hard to stick to the original rounded egdes... I don;t know... I'll have to discuss it with CF.... I would love to do an engraved brass Pommel... anythign is better than plain and boring, especially if the original is engraved... Brass is all the better too!
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Chris Artman




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PostPosted: Thu 05 Jun, 2008 5:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here are some pictures. One of them seems to be of the original Thorpe Falcion, the other is the Conyers Falchion. I would love to have an engraving like the Conyers on the Thorpe... I don;t see any engraving on the picture I have put here which is from "The Sword in the Age of Chivalry"


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Chris Artman




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PostPosted: Thu 05 Jun, 2008 5:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have to say, it might be fun to have them do the Conyer's Falchion also.... Has anyone else replicated that? Looks like Jason's weapon from Friday the 13th.... Maybe I'll have CF and Ollin do that also... I like the black hawk... wish I could see the other side of the pommel...

Last edited by Chris Artman on Thu 05 Jun, 2008 6:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Glen A Cleeton




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PostPosted: Thu 05 Jun, 2008 6:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I own an interpretation of the Conyers by Glen Parrell. He is amongst the missing and had left a lot of people hanging but did do a fair good job with his efforts when they did get done. While the actual blade dimensions on this are quite close to the original, the overall forward thickness is a bit more than the original. The grip is about an inch and a half longer and the cross bulkier than the original. All this puts it at about ten ounces heavier than the original.

I believe at least one of the companies out there does make a version of this but mislabels it and calls another of their falchions the John Conyers.

I picked up mine on the secondary market from Eric McHugh as he was settlng in with Albion. It is a head turner when out on the tables at show and tell. I keep meaning to do up printed display cards but it is more fun to talk to those interested.

Cheers

GC
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Dan Dickinson




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PostPosted: Thu 05 Jun, 2008 10:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, I have never seen a color photograph of the hilt to confirm, but have only ever heard of the pommel being brass. I also have never seen a photo of the engraving....but an old drawing in the book Vanishing England, by P. H. Ditchfield shows at least part of the decoration...I don't know what's on the other side.
Hope this helps,
Dan



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Chris Artman




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PostPosted: Thu 05 Jun, 2008 10:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks Dan,

I posted this above but maybe it will be more noticeable if I post it again here:
( I wonder why this system chooses to display some atachments and just make a link for others... hmmmm)

I don't see any engraving on the picture I have put here which is from "The Sword in the Age of Chivalry" which is the picture in the link below:



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Dan Dickinson




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PostPosted: Thu 05 Jun, 2008 10:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I agree that the Oakeshott photo doesn't seem to show any decoration....but the photo does seem to show much spotting on the pommel which could easily obscure any decoration. Also, it may just be my eyes seeing what i want to see, but if you look extremely closely, I believe you can see some of the decoration on the outside ring of the pommel that matches the drawing....and perhaps the tail of the beast on the center boss. That combined with the fact that the curator says there are beasts seems good enough for me....though like you I would really love to see a clear color photo.
Dan


P.S. I believe the photos only show up in the post if they are under a certain size limit.
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Chris Artman




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PostPosted: Thu 05 Jun, 2008 10:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hmmmm... so that leaves room for interpretation. May as well do a bronze pommel with some engraving for sure....

By the way, here are some other interpretations....



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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Fri 06 Jun, 2008 4:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chris Artman wrote:
( I wonder why this system chooses to display some atachments and just make a link for others... hmmmm)


It's all about size. Larger attachments get displayed as a link so people on slower connections don't have to suffer through a long download. In the Attachment Guide on the Info page, it says:

Quote:
Why does my attached image appear as a link rather than displayed in my post?
Images that are wider than 800 pixels or taller than 800 pixels will be displayed as a link rather than embedded in the post. This allows members with dial-up connections to enjoy their browsing experience without having to download every overly-large graphic.

Happy

ChadA

http://chadarnow.com/
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Fri 06 Jun, 2008 6:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chris Artman wrote:
"The replica's pommel is unadorned steel rather than engraved brass, but its length and width closely match the original."

How do we know? Was this from the museum curator?


All of that info was from the curator. Note this quote as well: "He said the pommel is brass with engraved images of animals and monsters."

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Dan Dickinson




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PostPosted: Fri 06 Jun, 2008 7:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chris, I later went back to my copy of SAOC....and could see the beast quite clearly this time. I'll see if I can get a good scan of it later.
Dan
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Chris Artman




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PostPosted: Fri 06 Jun, 2008 1:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank-you, this is going to be a fun project... I'm sure CF will be glad to use a Bronze Pommel and due some engraving of monsters Happy It would be great if you can post the images!

Such a fun project!!
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Chris Artman




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PostPosted: Mon 09 Jun, 2008 8:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hey Dan, any luck? I have sword in the age of chivalry, but I don't see any detail in that photo. It is a decent photo, but I see nothing on the pommel.

Quote:
an old drawing in the book Vanishing England, by P. H. Ditchfield shows at least part of the decoration...


Which picture did you see the best more clearly? I'd love to buy the book if need be....
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Tue 10 Jun, 2008 7:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You should tell Alan West about your project and ask for a digital photo of the Thorpe falchion's pommel. He was very helpful when I contacted him and, as an archaeologist, would probably go out of his way for the chance to see an accurate reproduction of the sword.

http://www.museums.norfolk.gov.uk/default.asp?Document=200.21.30


Curator:
Alan E. West
alan.west@norfolk.gov.uk
01603 493631

Failing that, put out a call here for some of our UK friends to visit the museum and get photos for you.

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Dan Dickinson




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PostPosted: Tue 10 Jun, 2008 11:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chris, I'd definitely follow Sean's advice...as a good quality color pic is your best option.
However, this is what I was able to come up with.
The beast was still harder to see in my scan than it was just looking at the pic in the book.....so i took the liberty of inverting the colors to show it a little more clearly.
The second pic is my attempt to outline in red the parts of the beast that i can see most clearly.
Hope this helps,
Dan



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