[JE Sarge]

I have to say in my opinion that Albion is a production sword. Plans are drawn up, numbers are crunched into the CNC machinery, and the staff learn to grind it out repeatedly. They add it to their product line, and they are run as orders come in. If each piece is made to precise, researched tolerances, then each Sheriff should be the same as the last one made as well as the one made after that. Making something identical each time is production. There will naturally be differences in each sword, but there are slight differences in all production weapons.

It can be assumed that Albion makes swords to order to not have any 'dead stock' laying around, or invest the time and effort prematurely into a sword that may or may not sell. Pizza companies do this as well. You don't do a run of 50 pepperoni pizzas in advance, you make them to order so that you are not wasting resources. Dough or steel, the principals are the same in a business plan. Windlass and other off-shore companies can do this because they are only paying about 15% of the sword's retail sale price to have it made (I know this because I was a Windlass/MRL distributor for 4 years before I got fed up with their QC).

My personal idea of a truly custom weapon is a blacksmith pouring blood, sweat, tears, and love into what he is making for me as an individual to my exacting specifications. I don't mean any disrespect, but I honeslty don't feel that Albion fits the bill as a custom weapon manufactuer.

[Sean Scott]

[Joe Fults]

[Joe Fults]

I'm being bad. I committed to myself not to discuss Albion some time ago because my customer experience with them soured after we both backed into corners (which I have to take most of the blame for).

And yet here I am.

To me, what it comes down to is that Albion creates exceptional products that are exceptionally accessible to a wide audience. They suck at some other things but the product is exceptional and you can get your hands on it.

Before Albion's Next Gens you just could not get anything like what they create, unless you were lucky enough to work with one of a handful of custom smiths. Then, assuming a top tier smith would accept you as a customer, you could count your wait in years and your cost in multiple thousands of dollars. For that you normally got something phenomenal. Normally, but not always. It took patience, money, time and you had to earn the privilege.

Unfortunately for me, I'm generally not on the list of regulars for the best artists in this game and I probably can't afford to be. That is just how it is. So Albion has a been a boon for me and people like me (people on the B and C list of collectors if you will). Albion pulled the whole market to a higher standard and there is no way I accept some of the crap that I was content with 10 years ago because of them.

Does that mean they are worth the current price?

Not to me but that has much less to do with the Albion product than it does with me as a collector. Bottom line, you're going to be hard pressed to find anything better, yes anything, unless you're on one of those very special lists. If you can afford to be a real artist's trusted patron (and I do think patron is the right word, not customer), I don't see how Albion's cost matters.

[Paul Watson]

Is Albion the only company producing swords with this level of historical accuracy? They seem to be. If this is not the case then can I be directed to any other comapnies that are also doing so. I don't think they are overpriced but they are expensive and I think they are worth it. The question is completly subjective, it comes down to what someone is willing to pay...or not.

I don't see how they can branch out and produce other weapons as well, unless they have someone researching them to the same level that Peter has researched swords. Anything less is not an Albion product as we know it. The broader the product range the more expensive everything will become, because as they try to cover more ground the R&D costs will simply skyrocket.

I would rather they do a few things exceptionally than try to please an entire markets wishes.

[Stu C]

[Paul Watson]

Stu, can you name a few as I would look at other options if they do in fact produce swords as good as Albion.

Their swords aren't generic, you just have to read what Peter writes about the designs to realise that. For example there was debate about why the Oakeshott did not end up with risers on the grip as shown in the concept sketch. Peter's explanation as usual showed insight into what makes a sword work on an aesthetic level. He has also made comments about possible design revisions for the Chevaliers hilt components that exhibited a depth of knowledge rarely seen. Whenever he writes about swords the reader ends up learning so much more about them. I do not think Peter or Albion simply like to mix and match furniture on similar or the same blades for the sake of it. A good example of the careful planning that goes into their design variations are their XIV's.

To say that Peter is talented but there are plenty of talented people out there seems to be saying there are plenty of people out there with the same ability. I admit my experience is limited but I like to think of this site as being a very well informed and educational forum, and the person who always exhibits the greatest knowledge about his craft is Peter Johnsson.

[Taylor Ellis]

[Jeff A. Arbogast]

Several years ago I ordered an Albion Norman. I was interested in the battle of Hastings and I already had a Danish War ax from A & A. So I wanted a representative weapon from the other side. When I saw it, it took my breath away. It was flawless. It had the "feel" of a real sword from 1066,a real shield-splitter with the wide thin blade, the somewhat flexible temper, and the simple yet elegant look that Albion excels at. You pick up an Albion and it takes you back a thousand years. To me, the feeling is ecstatic. That alone is worth the price to me. If I have a bad day, I slide my Albion out of it's Christian Fletcher scabbard and the world just goes away, and I'm with Duke William, looking up the hill at the line of Axemen waiting. You can't put a price on that feeling. And sometimes, as Albion has done recently, they offer a markdown, that I certainly took advantage of. I am awaiting my Knight, which with the markdown, is far less than I paid for the Norman several years ago. Albion is the Cadillac of production swords, and is priced accordingly. As someone else here has said, if I was suddenly in a "Mad Max" world, I would grab an Albion.
One thing, though-an Albion will need more care and Maintenance than an A&A sword. I have one of both, and the Albion must be kept oiled or waxed to prevent rust from forming. The A & A sword is far less prone to that, as they use chromium in the steel (that's what my welder friend told me, who's well versed in these things). But the Albion holds a razor sharp edge better than the A &A, although they are still mighty sharp. I tend to go to Albion for their swords, and to A & A for their polearms, which I feel are very handsome indeed. I haves several so far, a spear, the Danish Ax, a German flail, and am working on a war hammer. I will buy more from them as I can. They are also pleasant and fun to talk to, as Albion is. It's the attention to detail, the subtle aesthetic touches, and perhaps most of all, the original method of construction that sells me that an Albion is a purchase that, expensive as they can be, you won't regret.

[Joe Fults]

[Stu C]

[Stu C]

[Mike Capanelli]

[Glen A Cleeton]

Mike C.

[Thomas Jason]

I've been debating if I should post anything due to my recent fallout with Albion, but I really feel that some things need to be said.

1.) Albion Swords are the best production swords made today, no doubt. They feel incredible in the hand, are durable, sharp and the most historically accurate productions available.

2.) It appears that most of the cost for certain swords is driven by inefficient manufacturing methods and handling of the steel could likely be optimized to reduce costs by about 25-30%

3.) Business wise, Albion has also made some very poor business decisions. Particularly around the FilmSwords brand. The Conan/Marto issue hurt them, and as with all companies, they likely passed on the cost to the consumer (there's no other choice). I also know their recent sales/price increase flub also caused Albion Europe to lose some business as a whole bunch of Europeans ordered from the US group.

4.) Their recent price increase has put them into the realm of the custom smith price wise. Will this hurt them? Absolutely. There are smiths in Europe who are now producing swords that are just as historically researched and documented and are available for less. Custom smith issues do apply though.

5.) Do Albions retain their value on the secondhand market? No. Sorry to burst the bubble of folks who think so, but currently Albions being resold are going for 10%-30% less than their retail price. This is simply a matter of supply and demand. You will never be able to sell something pre-owned for more than the cost of something new while it is still in production. In some cases those who ordered their swords when the models were first announced and held on to them through multiple price increases may see their money back. Otherwise, don't expect to see your investment go up until the model is retired or Albion is out of business (which may happen sooner than we would like).

[Glen A Cleeton]

Thom J wrote

[Justin King]

[Daniel Staberg]

[Paul Watson]

I think if anyone is entering this discussion saying that there are custom smiths doing the work for less than the cost of an Albion it needs to be followed up with examples.

Stu, yes Patrick Barta and Vince Evans are fantastic smiths, I would very much like a basket hilt by Vince and a rapier by Patrick. But if we are talking about products on offer you cannot compare them to Albion you would have to compare them to a custom piece by Peter Johnsson, and it is the price of the Albions that is being debated here. I should clarify that I am talking about the Next Gens here not so much the Museum Line, those swords, in particular the Svante are of course as everyone knows a big step up in price although the cost of some Next Gens do cross over into the price range of the Museum Line.

This is the reason why I beleive the Albions are not too expensive, they appear to be the only range of swords with such a level of historical accuray. As an example just look at the review of the Knight by Patrick Kelly. As the owner of a Peter Johnsson type X he says it is the best sword of it's type that he has ever seen, but he readily admits it does not handle as well in some respects to the Knight because the type XII was a step forward in sword design. This can only be evident if the two swords are true to historical type. Someone could have produced what they were calling a type XII and it could have been completly off with it's weight, distal taper etc ( I know these vary greatly within types and that it is how all these qualities combine that make an effective sword) and therefore not true to historical type.

[Ciaran Daly]

I own a Talhoffer, purchased second hand for roughly 80% of the price at the time, and I consider the purchase a bargain. Albion's swords are worth every penny.

I can't help feeling that this a silly debate, essentially. In one corner we have the idealized vision of what amounts to Conan's dad in a forge in the woods (not sure even the Latene Celts got their swords that way) , on the other the realities of sword production today, where the expertise, talent and research of a man like Peter Johnsson meet the modern equivalent of a medieval German lad with strong legs pedaling a grinding wheel for stock reduction: a cnc machine.

Not happy that Conan's dad didn't personally pattern weld you a sword? Sounds like a personal problem. It's certainly possible to get that done, though: I suggest putting an order in with an artist like Jake Powning - you will have an heirloom, and pay accordingly. But to resent Albion because they didn't bring you your idealized custom smithed sword at their price point is to wilfully ignore the economic realities of the business, which point to the fact that it is a privilege to be able to purchase these swords at all, and a privilege we likely won't have for long, because they are operating at a loss in a limited market with increasing production costs and stagnant demand.