Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Awl Pike? Reply to topic
 
Author Message
Daniel de Castro Caputo




Usergroups: None

Location: Brazil
Posts: 11
PostPosted: Fri 15 Jan, 2010 2:12 pm    Post subject: Awl Pike?         Reply with quote

First I apologize for my terrible english. I┤m brazilian, and all I have learned of this language was by myself, so my text will probably be full of errors.

Being in Brazil, it's almost impossible for me to be in contact with medieval weaponry (even reproduction), but even so I┤m very interested in those weapons, their characterstics, and usage.

Lately I've been curious about the Awl Pike, or Ahlspiess, and would like to know it's general characteristics (weight, lenght, etc.), how and why it was used.

I find it a very strange weapon because it seems too heavy for a thrust only weapon...

Daniel de Castro Caputo
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
Martin Fischer




Usergroups: None

Location: Cologne, Germany
Posts: 37
PostPosted: Fri 15 Jan, 2010 2:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

... the Ahlspie▀ was used in the 15th century - at first especially by the Hussites at the beginning of this century, later also in Germany and Austria. It's a trust-weapon with a lenght up to ca. 230 cm and a weight of ca. 2,5 kg. The blades of surviving originals are up to 80-100 cm long and of square cross-section - in many cases there is a flat disc for protection shrinked to the base of the blade.

Regards

Martin

PS: Here is an example:



 Attachment: 6.07 KB, Viewed: 4765 times
Ahlspie▀.jpg

View user's profile Send private message
Daniel de Castro Caputo




Usergroups: None

Location: Brazil
Posts: 11
PostPosted: Fri 15 Jan, 2010 2:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks!

Now I have a better idea of the weapon... There┤s actually very few information about it on the web. Even here at myArmoury I could find anything...

But, my question is... 2,5 kgs! If i'm not mistaken, it┤s approximately the same weight of the Halberd, so what would be the utility of such a heavy thrust-only weapon?

The normal pike wouldn't do the same task of the awl pike with more agility? Or, perhaps the Awl Pike would be better piercing armour... It would pierce throug the average plate of the XV century?

For curiosity, I think it┤s name in portuguese is Chuša, but I┤m no certain of that too... Luiz de Cam§es describes it on the Vasco da Gama arsenal during the navigation for India:

"Isto dizendo, manda os diligentes
Ministros, amostrar as armaduras:
Vem arnezes, e peitos reluzentes.
Malhas finas, e laminas seguras,
Escudos de pinturas differentes,
Pelouros, espingardas de ašo puras,
arcos, e sagittiferas aljavas,
Partazanas agudas, chušas bravas : "

I wonder if this weapon was also used by the portuguese during this period...

Daniel de Castro Caputo
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
Eric Hejdstr÷m




Usergroups: None

Location: Visby, Sweden
Posts: 184
PostPosted: Fri 15 Jan, 2010 4:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If you strike an opponent with an ahlspiess it's basically like smacking them with a steel rod. No cutting power but still oughta hurt. Not to mention the obvious thrusting power and possible armour penetration...
View user's profile Send private message
Matthew Fedele




Usergroups: None

Location: Auburn, NY USA
Posts: 64
PostPosted: Fri 15 Jan, 2010 5:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

From Hafted Weapons in Medieval and Reconnaissance Europe:

German ahlspiesse are recorded in the early fifteenth century, and are pictured without
a disc hand guard. This particular form of the ahlspiess is known by the term breach pike
in English, breschspiess in German, pique de brŔche in French, and quadrellone in Italian. It is
identical to the fifteenth century Austrian weapon except that there is no sculpted indent
for the roundel (see below). Handsome and well-formed examples exist with hexagonal
solid throats whose spikes measure some 95 cm. (36ö) in length. They appear to have persisted
longer than the ahlspiess, as late-sixteenth- century forms exist with the typical nodus
between the spike base and the shaft socket.

That's the only measurement he has in it. He also stated all the extant shafts seemed to be replacements so the overall length isn't sure.

Cheers,
Matt
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Frances Perry




Usergroups: 
Industry Professionals

Location: West Yorkshire
Reading list: 10 books
Posts: 68
PostPosted: Sat 16 Jan, 2010 1:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

In terms of the awl-pike, it appears that one is portrayed here, in a mid 15th century illustration which goes with a piece of writing called 'How a Man Schall be Armyd'. I'm not sure if you can extrapolate any accurate length from the picture, but you get the idea. While the artist has done some strange things to the geometry of the room and weapons, the awl-pike appears to be the same length as the polaxe.



Is it written 'ahlspiess'?


ôIn these modern times, many men are wounded for not having weapons or knowledge of their use.ö
- Achille Marozzo, 1536
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Daniel de Castro Caputo




Usergroups: None

Location: Brazil
Posts: 11
PostPosted: Sat 16 Jan, 2010 7:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Eric Hejdstr÷m wrote:
If you strike an opponent with an ahlspiess it's basically like smacking them with a steel rod. No cutting power but still oughta hurt. Not to mention the obvious thrusting power and possible armour penetration...


However, it's not like a modern steel rod.

I don't think that it was carefully forged like a sword blade, and It looks very thin. There wouldn't be a chance o breaking it if used like a mace?

Daniel de Castro Caputo
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
Vincent Le Chevalier




Usergroups: None

Location: Paris, France
Reading list: 15 books
Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 782
PostPosted: Sat 16 Jan, 2010 8:25 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There is some more info in this thread:
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=11402

Regards,

--
Vincent
Ensis Sub Caelo
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Awl Pike?
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum



All contents © Copyright 2003-2013 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum