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Boris Bedrosov
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Location: Bourgas, Bulgaria
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PostPosted: Sat 04 Oct, 2014 4:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Kai Lawson wrote:
That sounds like a rough time. i certainly hope things are improving for you now, and that you're in a good (or not a bad) mental place..

Thanks, Kai - the things are getting better for now.

As for the helmet - I don't plan any decorations in the areas between the flutes.
Yes, indeed - there are many authentic ones with such decorations, but in mine these would be left flush. Reason - at the very beginning I consider this helmet as a "training" - as first of such type I literally learn/train how to make it. It has a lot of inevitable flaws and I don't consider it "best" of my helmets. These decorations would be enough for it, I think.
Someday I would probably make technically better one, and it would be richer in decorations. Also, I hope I would learn another decoration techniques - for example metal-in-metal inlay, which to be implied there.

The brass decorations are almost ready - nothing complicated really, just some flower-shaped, pin punch-made motives. Some additional sanding and polishing are required, after that they would be shown here.

About the flutes - there is a countless number different shapes and sizes. If you wish, just make a quick Google-search with key-word "turban helmet".
You'll see narrow, wide, long, relatively short, straight, spiral, convex, concave, flat and almost any plausible combination. There are also at least two helmets (both in MetMuseum, if I remember correctly) with X-pattern flutes


Picture taken by Marie-Lan Nguyen

and even several with flutes, arranged in circles running parallel to the ground



Indeed, the fantasy of the old craftsmen could be an inexhaustible inspiration for us.

"Everyone who has the right to wear a long sword, has to remember that his sword is his soul,
and he has to separate from it when he separates from his life"
Tokugawa Ieyasu

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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Sat 04 Oct, 2014 10:55 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Boris Bedrosov wrote:
Friends,
I experienced a terrible half-a-month period - the kid got ill, then my beloved father Peter passed away on September 26th (R.I.P. Daddy - I miss you) and finally - after some 22 years as licensed driver I took part in a car accident (thankfully without any injuries, only the car and my pride suffered).


My condolences on your father's death and I hope your kid is better now.


Great work on the helm, but you are a perfectionist so I can understand that you already have the next improved one in mind, at least in the early daydreaming design stage.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Boris Bedrosov
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PostPosted: Tue 07 Oct, 2014 12:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
My condolences on your father's death and I hope your kid is better now.

Thanks, Jean, I really appreciate this. Thank you very much, friend!

One really short, almost without any text post here.
The tar applied over the arabesques, the upper and bottom limits of the field are also covered with tar



Several pictures of the bottom field (the field with the Surah) - the limits here are also covered with tar, as the words from the text. The excesive tar is already removed around the text with sharpened wooden sticks and some gasoline (in a process shown previously with the greaves); the excessive tar from the flowers, arabesques and limits is still pending.






"Everyone who has the right to wear a long sword, has to remember that his sword is his soul,
and he has to separate from it when he separates from his life"
Tokugawa Ieyasu

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Boris Bedrosov
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PostPosted: Sat 11 Oct, 2014 1:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The helmet finally is ready to be etched



All areas, which should remain smooth, are protected with tar; the excessive tar is removed. The inner surface is also completely covered with tar.



And an interesting point of view - "from the sky" Big Grin - to the arabesques


"Everyone who has the right to wear a long sword, has to remember that his sword is his soul,
and he has to separate from it when he separates from his life"
Tokugawa Ieyasu

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Boris Bedrosov
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PostPosted: Sun 12 Oct, 2014 9:38 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The etching process in short....

The helmet almost totally submerged in the vessel (in this case - just a bucket from a wall-paint, which provides me the diameter and depth I want)



After some time in the liquid the helmet was put out, washed with fresh water and neutralized both from outside and inside





The etching liquid is about 20% solution of Nitric acid (HNO3), while for the neutralization Sodium carbonate (Na2CO3) was used.

"Everyone who has the right to wear a long sword, has to remember that his sword is his soul,
and he has to separate from it when he separates from his life"
Tokugawa Ieyasu

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Boris Bedrosov
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Location: Bourgas, Bulgaria
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PostPosted: Tue 14 Oct, 2014 2:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The results from the etching....

* front


** right


*** left


**** back


and finally ***** the top


Well, before giving me your "wow" votes, let's see the flaws:
The etching is very deep - my micrometer showed difference of about 0.2 mm. The reason for this is the long time of etching - about 40 minutes.
The welding seam is very well visible (it appears almost a damascus pattern in the area of the topmost row); this is also due to the long process time.
I have some etching cavities in places they shouldn't be - it seems the tar wasn't applied properly, or again the process time is longer.
Anyway, as the helmet was already designated as a "trainer" - the flaws are inevitable; next time it would be far better, I hope.

"Everyone who has the right to wear a long sword, has to remember that his sword is his soul,
and he has to separate from it when he separates from his life"
Tokugawa Ieyasu

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Kai Lawson





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PostPosted: Tue 14 Oct, 2014 8:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Still gets my 'wow' vote. Bonus points for doing a kit for an under-represented culture and religion, especially one not your own.
"And they crossed swords."
--William Goldman, alias S. Morgenstern
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Radovan Geist




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PostPosted: Tue 14 Oct, 2014 11:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

IMHO, that etching really turned up really well! thumbs up for your skills (and patience - with such a large area). I suppose that the visible welding seam would be repaired by polishing.
BTW - if you happen to decide that you need to get rid of your "trainer" pieces, do not hesitate to contact me Big Grin
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Boris Bedrosov
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PostPosted: Wed 15 Oct, 2014 2:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks both, Kai and Radovan!

#Kai
BTW, although Islam isn't really my culture and religion, it's not unknown for me at all.
Far more interestingly, it's good to note, I learned a lot new things about the Islamic culture as a whole; this makes me see the things from a different point.

#Radovan
The etching is really good - what I don't like are all these flaws, many of which actually were avoidable.

"Everyone who has the right to wear a long sword, has to remember that his sword is his soul,
and he has to separate from it when he separates from his life"
Tokugawa Ieyasu

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Last edited by Boris Bedrosov on Sun 19 Oct, 2014 3:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Boris Bedrosov
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Location: Bourgas, Bulgaria
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PostPosted: Wed 15 Oct, 2014 3:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If someone is interested in, the meaning of Surah 1: Al-Fatihah as given here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Fatiha is:

1:1 In the name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate.
1:2 All praise is due to God, the Lord of the Worlds.
1:3 The Merciful, The Compassionate.
1:4 Master of the Day of Judgement.
1:5 You alone do we worship and You alone we seek for help.
1:6 Keep us firm on the Straight Path.
1:7 The path of those upon whom You have bestowed Your blessings, those whose (portion) is not wrath, nor of those who have gone astray.

According to http://www.quranse.org/QueryEngine/index.php?...&BL=en a slightly different translation could also be given:

1:1 In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
1:2 Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds,
1:3 The Beneficent, the Merciful.
1:4 Master of the Day of Judgment,
1:5 Thee (alone) we worship; Thee (alone) we ask for help.
1:6 Show us the straight path,
1:7 The path of those whom Thou hast favoured; Not the (path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray.

The script itself is called "Naskh script" and is directly taken from this



14th- or 15th-century manuscript of the chapter.

"Everyone who has the right to wear a long sword, has to remember that his sword is his soul,
and he has to separate from it when he separates from his life"
Tokugawa Ieyasu

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Boris Bedrosov
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Location: Bourgas, Bulgaria
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PostPosted: Sun 19 Oct, 2014 4:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Time for some riveting....

The eyebrows and a part of the band in a close - in order to see the decorations. As already said - nothing complicated, just some flower-shaped motives made with pin punches. The holes are for the rivets, obviously.



And the riveting began. First were the eyebrows



The rivets are (almost traditionally for me over the brass) pieces cut from a copper wire. Two of the holes were not riveted yet - they've been intentionally left un-riveted for now.

Then the band was riveted.



Here, I've started from the middle of the band (back of the helmet), moving consecutively to both "eyes". When reached the ends, they were very carefully trimmed and drilled; the riveted also.





The empty holes you see near the bottom edge of the helmet are intended to hold the vervelles (I hope I wrote this word correctly Big Grin )

"Everyone who has the right to wear a long sword, has to remember that his sword is his soul,
and he has to separate from it when he separates from his life"
Tokugawa Ieyasu

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Boris Bedrosov
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PostPosted: Mon 27 Oct, 2014 11:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It took me three attempts to make this





tiny detail, until I reached shape and dimensions that satisfied me.
After riveting, the final holes in the eyebrows are now filled, the detail is in place.





Well, I know there would be questions about its function, let me explain.
As the aventail would be hung on a wire, hold itself by the vervelles, there wouldn't be any suspension (for the wire) in the area between outer corners of the eye-slits. So, this plate would hep me to do this. Also, by simple bending, I'll be able to fix both ends of the wire securely behind the nasal.

Are these plate and method historically correct?
As I didn't have a chance to examine a turban helmet from the inside so far, I can't give a precise answer to this question. What I could say is that the method/plate are easy to be done, simple and secure. In my opinion this make them at least plausible.
BTW, another, even simpler, design has come into my mind after the riveting was done.

"Everyone who has the right to wear a long sword, has to remember that his sword is his soul,
and he has to separate from it when he separates from his life"
Tokugawa Ieyasu

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William P




Location: Sydney, Australia
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PostPosted: Tue 28 Oct, 2014 5:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Boris Bedrosov wrote:
It took me three attempts to make this







Well, I know there would be questions about its function, let me explain.
As the aventail would be hung on a wire, hold itself by the vervelles, there wouldn't be any suspension (for the wire) in the area between outer corners of the eye-slits. So, this plate would hep me to do this. Also, by simple bending, I'll be able to fix both ends of the wire securely behind the nasal.

Are these plate and method historically correct?
As I didn't have a chance to examine a turban helmet from the inside so far, I can't give a precise answer to this question. What I could say is that the method/plate are easy to be done, simple and secure. In my opinion this make them at least plausible.
BTW, another, even simpler, design has come into my mind after the riveting was done.


i dont know about turnban helmets, but some early medieval rus, byzantine kipchaq and other slavic helmets from around the balkan and black sea region... use a rolled edge with slots in it, the maille is held up by a wire that passes through the rolled edge lkike this one http://www.tribur.de/blog/wp-content/uploads/...schema.jpg which is a russian type I helmet from gnezdevo i believve
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~chrisandpeter/...elmets.htm

essentiually, its like the piece you fabricated but the segmented and rolled parts are from the metal of the helmet itself i believe, possibly a seperate strip that goes around the circumference.

its just another way of doing it., another way is to bend up a part of the nose piece or whatnot into a small hook to hang the maille or that circlet of wire that i mentioned.
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Boris Bedrosov
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Location: Bourgas, Bulgaria
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PostPosted: Tue 28 Oct, 2014 6:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

William,
I'm well known with this construction, but all turban helmets I've seen (believe me, they are literally hundreds - both personally or as pictures) do not share such feature.

For now (unfortunately after riveting) I consider as best plausible really small (mine is very, very big) bracket, riveted behind the nasal with a single rivet; the rivet itself is filed flush from the outside. I should re-check all my pictures available in order to verify / or dismiss such theory.

"Everyone who has the right to wear a long sword, has to remember that his sword is his soul,
and he has to separate from it when he separates from his life"
Tokugawa Ieyasu

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Boris Bedrosov
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Location: Bourgas, Bulgaria
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PostPosted: Thu 30 Oct, 2014 6:51 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The tops of the turban helmets usually end with very distinctive cube/reversed cone spike.
Now it's the time to make this detail.

In the beginning it was 20 x 20 mm piece of brass.



As turning such shape on standard (with three-jaws chuck) lathe is impossible, I started with marking and drilling recesses at the centers of both square surfaces of the piece - as precise as possible.
Later, this time on the lathe itself, these recesses were used to turn the piece "between two cones" - one cone attached to the tailstock, the other held by the jaws of the chuck and the detail between them.

Once the work on the lathe has been done, I cut off the excessive brass from the walls of the cube (now it's 16 x 16 x 16 mm) and drilled the crossing holes on the surfaces of the squares.



The corners of the cube were cut off also (in a manner used on the head of my Type II mace) and all surfaces sanded and polished. The cylindrical part was drilled and threaded for the future bolt assembly.





Note that the cylindrical part was filed to fit the hole at the top of the helmet.

And finally - on the top to check the fit


"Everyone who has the right to wear a long sword, has to remember that his sword is his soul,
and he has to separate from it when he separates from his life"
Tokugawa Ieyasu

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Radovan Geist




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PostPosted: Thu 30 Oct, 2014 11:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Lovely detail, Boris. And really well-executed. From what you write I assume you are going to attach it to the helmet with a screw hidden inside. what´s the advantage compared to soldering?
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Leo Rousseau




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PostPosted: Fri 31 Oct, 2014 1:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This might be a silly question but, I'll ask it anyway. What is the purpose of the holes in the square's faces ? Is it only for decoration ?
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Boris Bedrosov
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PostPosted: Fri 31 Oct, 2014 3:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

# Radovan
Actually, the spike is already fitted on the helmet (temporary I have some sort of delay with posting the progress).
Yes, I did this with bolt and big-diameter washer



The washer is the anchor, that locks the whole assembly firmly. What is crucial are the diameter of the washer and the length of the bolt - you need to select them very carefully in order to achieve good results.
Speaking about advantages, on my opinion this is the quick assembly. Also, as I will blacken the helmet (this includes a lot of heating) soldering wouldn't be much appropriate for me.


Leo
The question isn't silly at all - actually it's very good and interesting one.
I wouldn't assume the holes are only for decoration. Some of the helmets still retain rings in these holes





Well, what is the purpose of the rings could be disputable:
* most unlikely - to hold some sort of identification banner (in the manner similar to the Japanese kasajirushi-no-kan - holding the ID banner kasajirushi at the back of the kabuto)
** to hold some sort of plume - horse-hair could be the best choice
*** if one puts a piece of cord or leather thong through this ring, it would be easy and comfortable to wear the helmet hung over the shoulder during march.

"Everyone who has the right to wear a long sword, has to remember that his sword is his soul,
and he has to separate from it when he separates from his life"
Tokugawa Ieyasu

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Boris Bedrosov
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Location: Bourgas, Bulgaria
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Posts: 700

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PostPosted: Sun 09 Nov, 2014 2:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

As my superiors almost unexpectedly sent me to an UN MILOBs training course thus being closer to my PC only at the weekends, the above-mentioned delay will grow greater.
Actually, the helmet is already completed (and with this - all the harness) but now we are still dealing with the vervelles.

The vervelles themselves made of bronze - the one on the right was the first test one and was dismissed as dimensions



Later, when I fitted the avantail, it became clear the dismissed one would be better, but anyway after riveting all eight were in place



and closer to one of them



The wire in place for a test-fit




"Everyone who has the right to wear a long sword, has to remember that his sword is his soul,
and he has to separate from it when he separates from his life"
Tokugawa Ieyasu

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Jerry Monaghan




Location: melbourne australia
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PostPosted: Sun 09 Nov, 2014 5:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Boris
Love your work every thing you place your hand on turns to Gold I am impressed with your talent.

Regards

Jerry Monaghan
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