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Jeff Pelehac




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PostPosted: Sun 26 Nov, 2006 6:44 pm    Post subject: What kind of gun is this? WWII is when it was found         Reply with quote

A family friend gave me this gun a long time ago. He claimed he got it during WWII while in Italy doing a tour. I guess they were going through villages and he came across some stuff and this happened to be there. It may or may not be Italian but it looks hand made because a lot of the small details are imperfect. If anyone knows anything about it please post. Local gun shops here have no idea but have wanted to buy it on more than one occasion.


What is something like this worth? History behind it?

























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Eric Holt




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PostPosted: Sun 26 Nov, 2006 6:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That's a strange gun given that it has one barrel and two triggers. It appears to be a breech-loader holding one round, so I can't imagine what the second trigger is for. What in the world does that second trigger do? Can you tell?
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Thomas Watt




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PostPosted: Sun 26 Nov, 2006 7:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Just an impression... while it bears a lot of nice handwork, I notice it's bearing a patent number (DR Pat. 79855) as well as several maker's marks... I haven't access to a specialized gun catalog, but I'm willing to bet there's a listing (and likely some valuation guidance) for it.
Have 11 swords, 2 dirks, half a dozen tomahawks and 2 Jeeps - seem to be a magnet for more of all.
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Eric Holt




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PostPosted: Sun 26 Nov, 2006 7:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That's a strange gun given that it has one barrel and two triggers. It appears to be a breech-loader holding one round, so I can't imagine what the second trigger is for. Is there another barrel on the other side that I can't see? What in the world does that second trigger do? Can you tell? If I had to guess, I'd guess it to be a hunting gun if it's WWII-era. But I really don't know...
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Jeff Pelehac




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PostPosted: Sun 26 Nov, 2006 7:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

One seems to cock it and the other fires. Someone said a possible dualing gun? or target gun
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Thomas Watt




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PostPosted: Sun 26 Nov, 2006 7:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Eric Holt wrote:
That's a strange gun given that it has one barrel and two triggers. It appears to be a breech-loader holding one round, so I can't imagine what the second trigger is for. Is there another barrel on the other side that I can't see? What in the world does that second trigger do? Can you tell? If I had to guess, I'd guess it to be a hunting gun if it's WWII-era. But I really don't know...

The second trigger is for a "hair trigger" setting... it most resembles a pistol version of match rifles... I just had a nice Sharps rifle in my hand last week with very similar configuration.

Have 11 swords, 2 dirks, half a dozen tomahawks and 2 Jeeps - seem to be a magnet for more of all.
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Patrick Kelly




PostPosted: Sun 26 Nov, 2006 7:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Off hand I'd say it's a single-shot pistol designed for Schutzen-style competition, something that was very popular in europe during the 19th century. That's just a guess based solely on the style of the firearm.
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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Sun 26 Nov, 2006 7:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Guess: Some sort of target shooting gun, the double trigger could be a " set-trigger " first trigger takes care of most of the trigger pull and then one has a very light trigger pull on the second trigger. ( Extremely light trigger. )

Could be a high end target gun or a shooting gallery gun as a wild guess.

Any idea about the calibre ? Small in the .22 range or bigger in the .38 or .45 range ?

Sorry if I can't be more certain or helpful.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Jeff Pelehac




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PostPosted: Sun 26 Nov, 2006 7:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

.22 is about the size of it. But i think the long rifle ones are too big for it. I never actually shot it. Just going off the guy that gave me the gun when i was a lot younger.
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John V. Uyeda




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PostPosted: Tue 28 Nov, 2006 3:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mr. Pelehac,
I have seen a very similar, but not identical, weapon described as a "parlor pistol." They were very popular in Europe, rarely seen in the US. Basically they were well made, highly ornate, highly accurate, but very low powered target pistols that could be used without disturbing one's neighbors. I don't think any were actually fired in anyone's parlors, but that is just my opinion.
You mentioned that .22 LR ammo was too big for it. If my too big you mean the length of the cartridge and not the diameter (caliber) of the bullet you may want to see if .22 short ammo will fit in it. Any decent gunsmith should be able to tell you if .22 short will work, although some might not think to try it.
I don't know how helpful that was. I believe the key to you mystery gun are the proof marks. If you can find someone who recognizes them you'll be set. I am for the most part ignorant on that subject. Good luck, no matter what you have a beautiful and interesting weapon.

Very Respectfully,
J. V. Uyeda

Si Vis Pacem, Parabellum
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Bruno Giordan




PostPosted: Tue 28 Nov, 2006 4:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

DR. pat. : not italian, patent in italian is brevetto.

I guess Deutsches Reich Patent, german patent.
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Steve L.




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PostPosted: Tue 28 Nov, 2006 7:13 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

"D.R. Pat." means "Deutsches Reichspatentamt"

Itīs a so-called "Zimmerpistole" ("Room-", "Saloon"-pistol) - a gun for indoor-shooting. The calibers was shorter then .22LR.
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Steve Fabert




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PostPosted: Tue 28 Nov, 2006 8:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If .22 Short cartidges are still too long, then the pistol was designed for Flobert caps, which are even shorter and contain no powder, just the priming compound. Although technically still a firearm, for all practical purposes it is a "pellet pistol" if it chambers only Flobert caps.
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Jeff Pelehac




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PostPosted: Tue 28 Nov, 2006 8:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The guy the gun came from, said he could shoot .22 rounds out of it. He never said long or short but I know I have tried to get longs to fit and they do not. He said he didn't use it much but it was a fun suvenior to have after getting a bullet to the leg over there. He found it in Italy though and I am very impressed with the amount of information you guys have on such rare piece of arms.

Thank you so much so far!
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George Doby




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PostPosted: Wed 29 Nov, 2006 4:41 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

target/parlor pistol, double set triggers, .22 short or flobert caps, yes they were advertised for indoor shooting, proofs resemble germanbelgium (crown B) many manufacturers some quite small, i would say this is high end model.
try old west scounger for flobert caps and post pics on gunboards.com for better chance of ID.

don't sweat the petty things, just pet the sweaty things
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Bruno Giordan




PostPosted: Sat 02 Dec, 2006 7:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeff Pelehac wrote:
The guy the gun came from, said he could shoot .22 rounds out of it. He never said long or short but I know I have tried to get longs to fit and they do not. He said he didn't use it much but it was a fun suvenior to have after getting a bullet to the leg over there. He found it in Italy though and I am very impressed with the amount of information you guys have on such rare piece of arms.

Thank you so much so far!


Italy and germany are pretty close, commerce was ever strong between the two worlds.

Northern italian towns are closer to Munich than to Rome, btw.
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Steve L.




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PostPosted: Sat 02 Dec, 2006 9:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
Italy and germany are pretty close, commerce was ever strong between the two worlds.

Northern italian towns are closer to Munich than to Rome, btw.


"Geographics" and "european social structures" seems to be no major school subject in US, huh? WTF?!
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Steve Grisetti




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PostPosted: Sat 02 Dec, 2006 10:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Steve L. wrote:
Quote:
Italy and germany are pretty close, commerce was ever strong between the two worlds.

Northern italian towns are closer to Munich than to Rome, btw.

"Geographics" and "european social structures" seems to be no major school subject in US, huh? WTF?!

This question is a bit off topic, but let me offer the following: A few years ago, someone performed a survey with children in 8th grade (~13 years old) in the USA. They were asked to identify the USA (their own country!!) on a physical map of the world (i.e., a map without names, of course). If I correctly recall, a majority of the children picked Brazil! WTF?! Not a direct answer to your question, Steve L, but I think that gets the point across, doesn't it?

"...dismount thy tuck, be yare in thy preparation, for thy assailant is quick, skilful, and deadly."
- Sir Toby Belch
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Steve L.




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PostPosted: Sat 02 Dec, 2006 11:01 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thatīs the same problem here in germany:

But here was the test with 15 - 17 year young semi-adults. They have to mark Berlin on an map (only border was visible). They have done a good job, and the position was mostly correct (at higher half and more to the east) - but it wasnīt a map of germany, but sweden!!! WTF?! (And they donīt have to find it on an world map!!! In was only this land to see!!!)

But that was europeans!!! Germans!!! Living in germany (europe)!

But i guess, most of theUS-citizens know more about the backside of the moon (Not offensive meant!!!!!) then about europe!?

Back to topic:

Iīm living in Munich, and here is the Deutsche Patentamt to find. I can make an phone call next week - maybe i can get more infos about D.R. pat. 73855. Gimme a few days....
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Sat 02 Dec, 2006 11:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Debates about scholastic achievements (or lack thereof) are off-topic for this thread and this website as a whole. Please keep things on-track.

Thank you.

Happy

ChadA

http://chadarnow.com/
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