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Caleb Hallgren




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Location: DeKalb, IL
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PostPosted: Sun 01 Aug, 2004 2:09 pm    Post subject: In the market for a Longsword         Reply with quote

Hello Everyone:

I've fenced sport and historical fencing for about three years now and am now considering getting into longsword fencing. As such I have been looking around for a bated longsword. In terms of preference, I'm looking for a total weight of between 2 and 3 lbs., and a point of balance around 3 inches from the crossguard, although closer is better. My price range is around 300-350 USD (any more than 400 is out of the question). So far my best choice seems to be a Pavel Moc Embleton. I would very much like comments from those of you who own a Pavel Moc Embleton, or if any of you could point me in a new direction, it would be much appreciated. Thank You, I'll be looking forward to your comments.
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Roger Hooper




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PostPosted: Sun 01 Aug, 2004 2:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Albion is coming out with the Squire Line this Fall, reenactment swords for $300.00 - $350.00. - http://www.albionarmorers.com/swords/albion/s...squire.htm - There is a XIIa and a XVa that might suit you. I don't know how much they will weigh, but there is a good chance they'll be under 3 lbs., especially the XVa. Read the thread here in the Makers and Manufactureer's Forum.

Elsewhere, you may have a hard time finding a longsword under 3 lbs. and $400.00. Del Tin longswords are almost all over 3 lbs. The only one I can think of under that weight is the Gothic DT5155. Lutel? -- not sure about their weights, but I suspect they are generally over 3 lbs.

As for ATrims, perhaps you can get a plain-Jane Mercenary type longsword for under $400.00, but you may have to rebate the edge yourself.
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Geoff Wood




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PostPosted: Sun 01 Aug, 2004 2:51 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Just to confirm what was suggested above, I've a Lutel single hander that is near enough 3lbs dead, so I'd expect their longswords to be heavier.
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James Byrnes




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PostPosted: Sun 01 Aug, 2004 2:51 pm    Post subject: PoB         Reply with quote

Caleb,

Pavel Moc makes fine swords, from what Nathan says. Nathan knows a thing or two about swords :-) I personally had a blunt made by Vladimir cervenka. It is a very nice sword, well worth the under $400 I paid for it with shipping and scabbard. There are 2 reviews of Pavel Moc swords here on the site, I believe both were generally positive.


One point that I would like to raise about longswords lies in the PoB requirement you asked for. I would like to advise seriously AGAINST a PoB at the 3" or under for a longsword. Even on a blunt, the way it makes the sword track and handle are, in my opinion, negatives when practicing WMA or European Longsword fencing. others may have differing opinions, but the general consensus amongst practitioners seems to be about 4-6" is most appropriate for the longsword treatises we have to work from.

Good luck on your quest.

James

"Farewell sweet friend, I was a thousand times more evil than thou. "

Rocky Mountain Historical Combat Guild
All Saints Blades
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Joel Chesser




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PostPosted: Sun 01 Aug, 2004 3:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I hear good things about Del Tin.
..." The person who dosen't have a sword should sell his coat and buy one."

- Luke 22:36
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Patrick Kelly




PostPosted: Sun 01 Aug, 2004 3:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

To be honest, in your stated price range you're being too picky in terms of weight and POB.

In that price range compromises will be made in terms of blade geometry and mechanics. Besides, I totally agree with James on the POB issue. 5-6 inches out is best.

Albion has been mentioned, but they haven't actually introduced the Squire line as of yet. I'm sure they'll be a quality product though. An Atrim might be more in line with what you need. You can get it 'bated, and I believe Gus could recommend an appropriate model.

Arms & Armor has a rebated training sword for around $460. I know that's a bit out of your range, but it might be worth a look.

Lutel may be you best bet. For that kind of money you'll get the sword as well as a scabbard and belt. They come blunt unless otherwise requested.

"I'd rather go upriver with 7 studs, than a 100 sh!theads." - COL Charlie Beckwith, founder SFODD
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Shawn Mulock




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PostPosted: Mon 02 Aug, 2004 7:00 am    Post subject: "Heimrich Armoreors"         Reply with quote

I purchased a fechtbuch sword form this guy about 7 months ago. He is in Canada but his swords are pretty good, as far as I can tell. The swords weigh in about 3.5# depending upon length of hilts, blade and pommel type.

Mine has so far proven itself up to the task of taking a beating and being pretty responsive for drill and light freeplay. So far I have only had to use steel wool to remove a few nicks and to give it a satin finish. So for around CDN$300.00 it has been a great deal.

http://heimrick.netfirms.com/page4.htm

"It is not what you have, but what you have done".
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Matthew Kelty




PostPosted: Mon 02 Aug, 2004 11:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The Point of Balance comments are interesting, but I think a little clarification may need to be in order. What types of Longsword work are you doing, as the different techniques require different blade mechanics.

The sword's POB is simply the optimal position for the fulcrum (your hand) to move the blade's mass. By pivoting on that spot you exert the minimum effort to move the sword's mass in the most efficient manner.

If you're working in a technique like Joachim Meyer, Jakob Sutor, or perhaps more easily typified as a "hand-and-a-half" manner, your fulcrum is at the Quillons, the second hand on the pommel is used more to increase leverage or add control, and to have the POB closer to that front hand makes manipulating the blade very simple.

If you're working in a technique like Talhoffer, or the older methods which incorporate a lot more half-swording than the later styles, you're going to want that fulcrum closer to where you grip on the ricasso or forte.

Quite simply, put the Point of Balance nearest the hand that will be doing the work of guiding the blade. This way your weapon's mass is your ally, and will result in a lightning response to the nuances of your play.

PIck a blade with the POB in the best spot for what you intend to do, and if it involves both techniques, put it a little further out, and if your play involves one position primarily, keep it out for half-swording, or close for single handed.

That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it, until I develop a new one of course.... Happy

Respectfully,
Matthew
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Caleb Hallgren




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Location: DeKalb, IL
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PostPosted: Mon 02 Aug, 2004 12:22 pm    Post subject: All Saints Options         Reply with quote

After a tad more research, I figure that I can go up to $450, and I forgot to mention that I'm looking for a sword that has a nice thrusting capacity, as I do come from a rapier background and am quite fond of stabby maneuvers. Specifically two All Saints options seem to leap out at me in a sense:

The AT 1518 Type XIIa: I'm 5'9 tall and 130 lbs, so this is a nice option in that it is a shorter (40 inches total) longsword. A tapered pommel is also a plus as it makes for an extended grip if necessary. Additionally, while I do feel that a closer point of balance is better, if I am going for a 4-6 inches range, the point of balance on this is at the 4 inch mark. The sword is also fairly light at 2lbs, 2 oz.

The AT 1526 "Lady Ash": This is an even lighter sword than the XIIa and it's longer as well. This one just seems very nice and at a price of $440, it seems economical as well as asthecically pleasing. The point of balance is a tad further than I intitially thought I would like, but maybe it would be better. Maybe you could answer my question on this James, but could I switch the wheel pommel for a tapered one?

I have also sent emails to Pavel Moc and Albion Arms requesting more information on their Embleton Longsword (of which I only have information on length) and the Squire line type XVa Bastard Sword (of which I have no information except price).

If any of you could provide me with more information regarding the aforementioned Angus Trim Blades, it would be very helpful to me. Thank You.
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Caleb Hallgren




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Location: DeKalb, IL
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PostPosted: Mon 02 Aug, 2004 12:43 pm    Post subject: ATrim Banneret         Reply with quote

I would also be interested in information or comments on the ATrim MS1502 "Banneret" if any of you own or have handled one.
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