Here's an image with a chain attached to scale http://www.tforum.info/forum/index.php?s=&...p;p=221687

Adam, that last link of Falkenstein is very interesting. I'm not sure what kind of armour he's wearing under his surcoat. Don't know whether that would be a coat of plates or scale.

I seem to recall the coat of plates found in Hirschtein Castle, dated to c.1350 has the mounting points for chains on the chest, and at least one intact link.

I sort of recall that the chains are very long links, and quite square sectioned, an d seem to have an attachment bar that links them to the breastplate so they could be detached, and the one for a greathelm would attach via a keyhole-shaped slot and stud, quite similar to that of a modern key-chain lock.

Here are all the pictures I could find of the Hirschtein coat of plates, and a reproduction made from it. I really wish I could find better/bigger pictures of this, especially the reproduction. It's too hard to see how they attach to the chest, or how they are supposed to attach to the weapons. Oh, and none of those chains look long enough to reach the sword, dagger or helm. What's the 4th one for, a mace?







This guy, and the interperative drawing, is Otto von Orlamünde (1340). I think I just may base my kit off of these. Different color though. I'm also wondering if he has elbow cops or rebraces on under that maille since the vambraces are worn underneath. I wonder what he's supposed to be wearing on his legs as well.

In the interest of having all the discussion on one topic in one place, I've merged the thread "What's with the crazy chains?" with this one.

Much appreciated Mr. Arnow! The more I look at that interpreted drawing, the more I like it. I'm definitely going to design my kit around it. I don't guess a surcoat is needed anymore?

Kel,

I;m with a lunch box and maybe a wallet.

If anyone does make one of these post how it works out in combat and travel. I attached two chains temporarily and it lasted all of two months before I found it too much of a hassle.

RPM

To throw in some more guesses - it looks to me that having the helmet on the back like that may need two chains (one over each shoulder) to stop it bouncing around the side as soon as you move.

Possibly the other two are fixing you to the saddle making it harder to be knocked (backwards) off? Not sure of the pro's/cons of this - maybe one of our resident jousters may have an opinion?

Well, I found another source, but not much on it yet. From Osprey publishing, "Knight of Outremer AD1187-1344" (?). It has references to another find, and draws this chicken knight based off of it. Still not quite enough detail, and I don't know how good of a source this is. It does show a good, simple way to secure the chains to the chest though.

I'm trying to find more concrete stuff, and my wife is going to get on some German and Slovene forums and ask around there for me. Hopefully we can get this figured out soon.

These chains were mainly germanic, but they were used in England as well.

[ Linked Image ]
His chains seem reasonably long for most fighting styles.
But notice he has two chains going to his left side, and his dagger is on his right. They wouldn't both be for the sword, would they?

Hooray! I finally found some great pictures of how these chains attached, and it makes me feel a little dumb for not realizing it earlier. Heck, I feel dumb for not seeing it earlier! A member here, Nils-Erik Fahlvik, posted a picture and a link in the best thread of them all, the show us your kits and harnesses thread. I don't know how I missed that.

He has three chains on his CoP. In the picture, the left is for the sword, the middle for the dagger, and the right for the helmet. The sword and dagger attach/detach at the CoP, and the helmet attaches/detaches at the helmet. It looks like there is a leather strap around the grips of the sword and dagger that the chain is attached to, and these leather straps are also quickly removeable.






If anyone else has any questions on how the weapon chains work, there are more photos in the links. It even looks like he's fought with them attached, wonder how well that worked. Now I just need to find someone to make me a coat of plates. After I lose about 75 pounds though, school and office work has not been kind to me. :(

https://picasaweb.google.com/109493801277601815705/1350Tal#
https://picasaweb.google.com/109493801277601815705

I looked at these pictures and did a bit of thinking last year when I was making a repro of these chains.

The length of the chains clearly show that they are for temporary suspension of items whilst not being used, ie helm, sword, dagger etc. They would hamper your free movement if left attached.

I see the fitting at the top of the chain as follows:

A loop through the breast plate and decorative 'washer' that secures the top of the chain assembly.
A long single loop/link that passes through this loop and secures (via a pivot) to a tube.
A rod passes through this tube with a decorative finial fixed so the rod/tube forms a swivel assembly
Chain is fixed to the swivel assembly going down to a T bar.
I see no method of detachment for the chain at the breast plate end.

Adam Bohnstengel wrote

Quote:

Hooray! I finally found some great pictures of how these chains attached, and it makes me feel a little dumb for not realizing it earlier. Heck, I feel dumb for not seeing it earlier! A member here, Nils-Erik Fahlvik, posted a picture and a link in the best thread of them all, the show us your kits and harnesses thread. I don't know how I missed that.

I have to disagree with this interpretation based onwhat I see in the pictures shown here

I have never examined one of these in the flesh but this is how I see the pictures. I suspect my description is not very clear so I will try to do a sketch and post it up tomorrow.

Tod [/quote]

A sketch of how I interpret the top swivel assembly

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Leo, that is a great drawing! Thank you!

In my post, I was only referring to Nils-Erik Fahlvik's interpretation and construction of a CoP with chains; not necessarily the Hirschtein coat. It seemed to me to be a good, viable method, and, if nothing else, that's how the other end of the chain will attach to the weapons. Still a win for me! I want to say again, that sketch of how the Hirschtein coat works is excellent.

So.............you've made a CoP like this with the chains before, have you? Do you have any pictures? Are you willing to do it again? (after I lose some weight!)

Sorry to respond to an old post, but I guess it beats starting another thread to this.

Is anyone out there making these chains and fittings for sale? It's quite hard to google for this, put "chain" and "armor" or "chain" and "14th century" together in the same search, and there is a lot of hits on maile, even if one tries to eliminate that from results. That said, I've tried hard enough that at best this stuff isn't common. Perhaps somebody has sorted this out using easy to find hardware?

Thanks,

Steve

Hi Stephen,

I know that Christian Wiedner and Albert Collins (aka via armorari) have made chains like these. But only as a part of a coat of plates. But I think at least Christian Wiedner would also make only the chains. Take a look here:

http://www.plattnerei-wiedner.de/produkt_details.php?prodid=49

http://www.plattnerei-wiedner.de/produkt_details.php?prodid=47

http://www.plattnerei-wiedner.de/produkt_details.php?prodid=144

By the way : One can find such chains also in France – see attached an effigy from Flavacourt in Northern France

Cheers, Timm

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