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Mark Moore




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PostPosted: Wed 10 Apr, 2013 1:36 pm    Post subject: A Seax in Shira Saya......?         Reply with quote

Just browsing over at KOA on the new items and came across a Kris Cutlery Seax.....in shira saya. No , I didn't stutter. A seax....in shira saya. Folded steel blade looks nice, and the price is right to make it an easy custom job candidate! Sorry, can't post pics just yet, but go to KOA and check this out! Way cool in my book! Thoughts?.......McM
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Matthew P. Adams




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PostPosted: Wed 10 Apr, 2013 1:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=...tlery+Seax

...aaaaaaaand linked.

"We do not rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training" Archilochus, Greek Soldier, Poet, c. 650 BC
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Mark Moore




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PostPosted: Wed 10 Apr, 2013 1:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks, Matt. I just thought this was too cool. The patterning on the blade is lovely. I'm SO getting one of these!.......McM
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Matthew Harrington




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PostPosted: Wed 10 Apr, 2013 4:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wow, looks like a fantastic deal. Just stain that handle and make a leather sheath and off a viking you go! Big Grin
~See you in Valhalla, brother.~
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Tom King




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PostPosted: Wed 10 Apr, 2013 8:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

........

mfw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HA1mbZ_MMh8
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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Wed 10 Apr, 2013 9:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Just went to the Kult of Athena web site and just this minute bought one. ( Oh, I had seen it this morning before reading this topic,and was about to post my own topic about it after buying the seax, when I saw that someone had beaten me to it Big Grin Cool ).

I'm sort of " indifferent " about the grip's shape, but it does seem like a great candidate for customization of the grip as it comes with the seax or making one from scratch using some exotic woods with some subtle improvements in shape + maybe some nice wood carving.

The scabbard could be covered in leather and given a more traditional looking seax scabbard.

If the steel is of reasonable quality steel it will be a real " STEAL " ( Pun shamelessly intended Wink Razz Laughing Out Loud )

The blade itself looks like the best part of the deal and I really like it's shape and the fuller, from the statistics it seems like a fairly thick and robust blade and at the low price worth taking a chance on: I sort of hope that it's somewhere close to 50 r.c. or a bit better in hardness.

I can sort of see this seax selling like hot cakes if it's even half as good as it looks.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Mark Moore




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PostPosted: Wed 10 Apr, 2013 10:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks, Matthew, Tom, and Jean.....Those were the exact responses I thought this would get ! Yes, Matthew, the 'stain/carve/wrap' mods would be perfect to individualize this piece. Tom, ....What can I say....You took it right outta my mouth. Jean,...Damn right. This piece is so easy to customize, even a college student in a dorm room could make it look like a million bucks with a lil know-how and a dollar-store budget. I don't know about you guys, but I'm excited by this. Kris , in my own, has taken a step here. I have hoped and prayed for the longest that a good, reputable maker would offer something like this to the 'Euro-crowd'. This seax has ENDLESS possibilities. I can even see a 'myArmoury-CYOS...Create Your Own Seax' feature in the future. I'm not a sponsor or paid rep of KC, or any thing like that....but this is just too damn cool. Can't wait to get mine............Elk antler carved with an Odin effigy, brass pin with a copper rosette washer, subtle antique and acid etch on the blade with spine carvings..........MMMM...sounds better than the menu I had for dinner. Except, this menu makes me want a horn full o' mead instead of a sweet tea! Thanks fellas! I can't wait to see where this goes!!!.....McM
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Mark Moore




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PostPosted: Wed 10 Apr, 2013 11:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Just a personal observation, but to anyone planning on a modification/alteration to the grip of this seax............Best use a metal pin/rivet of some kind if planning to use the existing handle. Other sites call this the 'swinging helicopter blade of death' when the blade goes flying out of the grip. I'd call this the 'SCUD missile of seax-death'. The bamboo pin should be chucked. Period. A piece of copper or aluminum brazing rod will be much stronger, but....seeing as we don't know how good the wood is in the grip, I also suggest making your own grip from a good source-(i.e.- American oak/hickory, antler, bone, or leather wrapped. Just saying this to keep folks safe....'cause I know you're gonna swing it...at least once. Laughing Out Loud ...McM
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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Thu 11 Apr, 2013 2:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mark Moore wrote:
Just a personal observation, but to anyone planning on a modification/alteration to the grip of this seax............Best use a metal pin/rivet of some kind if planning to use the existing handle. Other sites call this the 'swinging helicopter blade of death' when the blade goes flying out of the grip. I'd call this the 'SCUD missile of seax-death'. The bamboo pin should be chucked. Period. A piece of copper or aluminum brazing rod will be much stronger, but....seeing as we don't know how good the wood is in the grip, I also suggest making your own grip from a good source-(i.e.- American oak/hickory, antler, bone, or leather wrapped. Just saying this to keep folks safe....'cause I know you're gonna swing it...at least once. Laughing Out Loud ...McM


Yes I don't plan to trust the bamboo pin although that system seems reliable in Japanese swords ???

Assuming I make a completely original handle out of very high quality exotic wood I would fix it permanently in place probably using epoxy cement in addition to any metal pin.

Someone keeping the original handle as is or customized could also epoxy it in place securely.

I'm assuming that it has at least a reasonably sturdy tang and roughing the surface should give a good hold for the epoxy.

Although I haven't thought about the details of the handle design I would probably make it slightly thicker at the front and back and smaller in diameter in the middle for a better grip and keep the hand from sliding forward onto the blade.

I might use a wire wrap at the pommel end and as a reinforcement and decoration at the blade end of the handle or find something in steel tubing that I can compress into an oval shape for the ends ..... early ideas and I might end up doing something else. Wink Big Grin

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Mark Moore




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PostPosted: Thu 11 Apr, 2013 4:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yeah, Jean......Japanese swords held together with bamboo pins are generally quite sturdy. This was just a personal observation and preferrence on my part. I'll probably end up encasing the tang in either wood or antler using epoxy AND a metal pin through all. As far as the existing wood of the handle and sheath go....in general, I've seen that overseas hardwoods sometimes aren't all that hard. I'm sure the existing wood would do for most, but I prefer something with a little more 'oomph'.......moose horn, elk antler, or a neat hardwood for me. I'm very anxious to see the quality of the steel. This blade just BEGS for runes and Nordic designs. We shall see.......... Happy .........McM
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Ken Speed




PostPosted: Thu 11 Apr, 2013 6:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mark wrote, "Other sites call this the 'swinging helicopter blade of death' when the blade goes flying out of the grip. I'd call this the 'SCUD missile of seax-death'. "

That would be funny if it weren't so horrifying! Has that actually happened to somebody?

Looking at this I think it's so obviously made to be modified that one almost wonders why they put a handle on it although providing the core for a sheath is a nice bonus. Strong as bamboo is in some applications I have to agree that I would be unwilling to trust it myself. I wonder if the tang is hardened or if it would be relatively easy to drill an additional hole in the tang. My thinking is that many people who put a new grip in this seax would rather have a wooden pin or two holding it in place rather than metal.

Since my friend Jean "Never saw a weapon he didn't like" Thibideau has ordered one I may wait until he has it in hand and gives me his impressions of it before I buy one but I have to admit it's hard to resist and appears to be a great value.
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William M




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PostPosted: Thu 11 Apr, 2013 7:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Looks awesome from the pics.. I am wondering though on the scabbard as I thought that seax's had leather sheaths?
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Jeremy V. Krause




PostPosted: Thu 11 Apr, 2013 7:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It looks like a pretty good deal and a nice candidate for some crafty historical improvements.

Nice to see something approach historical proportions and form at this price.
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Artis Aboltins




PostPosted: Thu 11 Apr, 2013 7:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A good catch for those who want an Anglo-saxon style brocken back seax, but, sadly, not really of much use for scandinavian or baltic style Sad unless you go for a reworking of the blade as well...
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Luke Zechman




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PostPosted: Thu 11 Apr, 2013 9:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think the blade looks splendid. The grip and scabbard don't do a thing for me. I would buy this simply for the blade, and at that price, I would be ok with doing so. This would be a purchase that i would buy simply to rehilt, and build a scabbard for. Does anyone know about the tang?
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Robin Smith




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PostPosted: Thu 11 Apr, 2013 12:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

William M wrote:
Looks awesome from the pics.. I am wondering though on the scabbard as I thought that seax's had leather sheaths?

The whole point of this thing is that it is a seax style blade dressed up in Japanese fittings. The grip and scabbard are not historical at all, and are inspired by Japanese Shira Saya, not traditional European fittings.

A furore Normannorum libera nos, Domine
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Johan Gemvik




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PostPosted: Thu 11 Apr, 2013 2:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean! We need a review of this baby ASAP!

If the blade is any good I'm buying one too. Provided the stock last. IMO this concept is a winner, you can just customize it however you like and use the wood parts or not.
This way it's safe for transport until you make a new scabbard. I just bet I could customize the shirasaya into a nice seax-style scabbard with plates and metal loops, similar to the Valsgärde seaxes even.


You know, a basic design like this in certain forumites hands, it's exciting just imagining what some of you guys can come up with for customization of these. Really looking forward to seeing that.
Rune inlay along the blade is a given since it resembles the Beagnolph seax (I always get that spelling wrong, but you know which one I mean).

"The Dwarf sees farther than the Giant when he has the giant's shoulder to mount on" -Coleridge


Last edited by Johan Gemvik on Thu 11 Apr, 2013 3:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Johan Gemvik




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PostPosted: Thu 11 Apr, 2013 2:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Robin Smith wrote:
William M wrote:
Looks awesome from the pics.. I am wondering though on the scabbard as I thought that seax's had leather sheaths?

The whole point of this thing is that it is a seax style blade dressed up in Japanese fittings. The grip and scabbard are not historical at all, and are inspired by Japanese Shira Saya, not traditional European fittings.


Actually. there were two systems for seaxes, the one with leather and plates only and the one with a wood core like a short sword, think rather like a roman gladius. See the book "Die Saxe von Valsgärde" or articles about the old Uppsala finds.
Petr Florianek has made some excellent repros of these of late.

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...shire+seax

Bruce Tordoff made a stunning Staffordshire seax based on those seen in finds from contemporary Uppsala (Vendel and Valsgärde) that he posted a thread about early last year.

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p...ht=#240556

These would be from Vendel age though, a bit early for the shape of seax the Kris Cutlery one has, but you can just change the tip a little maybe to make it more of a center point than a broken back.
If you want to keep it Thames style brokenback, since no scabbard was recovered from the Thames one could just extrapolate a plausible old pre-viking heroic age style scabbard for it.

"The Dwarf sees farther than the Giant when he has the giant's shoulder to mount on" -Coleridge
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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Thu 11 Apr, 2013 5:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Johan Gemvik wrote:
Jean! We need a review of this baby ASAP!

If the blade is any good I'm buying one too. Provided the stock last. IMO this concept is a winner, you can just customize it however you like and use the wood parts or not.
This way it's safe for transport until you make a new scabbard. I just bet I could customize the shirasaya into a nice seax-style scabbard with plates and metal loops, similar to the Valsgärde seaxes even.


You know, a basic design like this in certain forumites hands, it's exciting just imagining what some of you guys can come up with for customization of these. Really looking forward to seeing that.
Rune inlay along the blade is a given since it resembles the Beagnolph seax (I always get that spelling wrong, but you know which one I mean).


Well I have to get it in my hands first before I can take pics. Wink Laughing Out Loud I guess I could take pics of the tang before I do any customization and then later take other pics after I do something " creative ".

I might not personally worry too much about being strictly historically correct, although this is difficult because so few seax have enough of a handle left to be sure was was typical, probable or exceptional, but still historically plausible.

A crude period seax made by a blacksmith as a home made knife might be hilted with just a very simple wooden grip, or antler etc ..... but a richly made one made for someone with financial means could have been made somewhat finer with maybe some silver furniture ? There may have been in period some very conservative traditional ideas or styles fairly uniform and culturally rigid, but varying in quality or richness of detail ? Or, maybe just anything consistent with the culture might have shown more individuality and personal taste/creativity ? ...... But I'm just speculating here and I'm far from an expert on the seax and what variations would be credibly historical.

All this said, I will probably keep the handle of a simple shape, maybe waisted of oval cross section, some scroll work carving but more of my invention than keeping to Norse or Saxon or Celtic style.

Something maybe a bit similar to my Zombie Slayer handle in feel and look ? Probably not with a wooden guard although the handle could flare to being wider at the pommel and guard ends, even if technically there would be no actual pommel or guard ..... but I guess you know what I mean here. Steel wire is highly probable.



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Lewis Ballard




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PostPosted: Fri 12 Apr, 2013 5:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Cross cultural pollination---what's not to like? My only blade from KC is a Korean sword from their scratch'n'dent section, but it's a solid little brute. Without getting into the whole "Korean swords came first, no, Japanese swords came first" issue, it resembles a straight katana, differentially hardened: I like it, and KC seems to have a pretty good reputation.

Completely off topic, but I am working on hilting a saber, whose blade was blowtorched loose. I will be setting it up with poplar grips and a poplar scabbard and no guard.

Why yes, I will be calling it the "shirashashka," as a matter of fact.
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