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Dustin R. Reagan





Joined: 09 May 2006

Posts: 264

PostPosted: Thu 02 Sep, 2010 9:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thomas R. wrote:

Hi Dustin,

I will send an E-Mail to the Klingenmuseum in Solingen, asking, if they could take a Picture of the backside for you. This is no Problem, most museums in Germany respond very kindly to such questions, but it may take a while, before I'll get an answer. So stay tuned. Happy

Thomas


Thomas, that would be a great help! If possible, ask for a picture of the spine of the seax as well, since there appears to be inlay there, as well. Even if pictures are not possible, just confirming or denying that the opposite side of the seax has a different pattern on it would be helpful.

Thanks a lot, this is why myArmoury is such a great place!
Dustin
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Hadrian Coffin
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Location: Oxford, England
Joined: 03 Apr 2008

Posts: 403

PostPosted: Thu 02 Sep, 2010 10:25 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello,
Looks lovely! 

On the topic of the finish, I would go with something a little more subtle. Enough to let the inlay "pop" but not super dark. Akin to your second picture of the finish, rather than the first. Or, preferably, use no chemicals and just polish. From my experiance with originals I would say it is (arguably) more accurate. From most period descriptions a bright finish seems preferable. Here is one partial passage from Cassiodorus secretary to Emperor Theodoric A.D.~520 

"You have sent us swords capable even of cutting through armour. They are more precious for the iron of which they are made then for the gold that enriches them; with their strikingly perfect polish, they shine so that they reflect the face of whoever looks at them. Their perfectly formed edges......"

I started a topic on this very same question a year ago:
Seax Question

My views have since changed slightly on the topic as I have become more interested in this specific concept.
Aside from the question of the colour accuracy, there is the question of the finish itself. A modern chemical finish is vastly different to a period blued finish (you used something akin to SuperBlue, did you not?)... I have discussed this topic extensively with various curators and have come to the conclusion that while it is impossible to conclusively determine the original colour configuration... a non-enhanced finish is safer (accuracy wise). Especially when you've gone to all the work of creating an accurate piece, it is a shame to "ruin" it with modern chemicals. 
I also have to say personally I tend to lean towards a thought similar to what Jean posted above about a bright finish being perhaps preferable to a period eye. As it shows you have the resources to afford the extra effort a fine polish would take in period. That said it seems age in a weapon was considered good/preferable... in which case a well cared for but age-coloured finish may be preferable. Personally I would polish the blade (when finished) to a high-mirror polish... as the iron, steel, and silver age at their own respective rates the inlay and edge weld will begin to define themselves, but that is just what I would do.
Cheers,
Hadrian Happy

P.S. I really like this piece, and the fact that you are making it for yourself!

Historia magistra vitae est
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Jeremy V. Krause




Location: Buffalo, NY.
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PostPosted: Thu 02 Sep, 2010 10:27 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dustin R. Reagan wrote:
Thomas R. wrote:

Hi Dustin,

I will send an E-Mail to the Klingenmuseum in Solingen, asking, if they could take a Picture of the backside for you. This is no Problem, most museums in Germany respond very kindly to such questions, but it may take a while, before I'll get an answer. So stay tuned. Happy

Thomas


Thomas, that would be a great help! If possible, ask for a picture of the spine of the seax as well, since there appears to be inlay there, as well. Even if pictures are not possible, just confirming or denying that the opposite side of the seax has a different pattern on it would be helpful.

Thanks a lot, this is why myArmoury is such a great place!
Dustin


I have done some thinking on the spine also and it is an interesting question. First I thought that was some kind of inlay but now I think it might be some identification number or code used by the museum. It's hard to see. It would be cool if it were some inlay as this would give some justification for the spine-inlay I have on my Tod/Owen Bush seax. I may be wrong but this may also be unprecedented in the period- at least as far as extant pieces go.

BTW: I also feel that to take the conservative route as far as finish is the best bet. I say no blueing and little or no chemical treatment. In absence of evidence I am the proponent of "less is best".

I also feel this is the best approach regarding seax handles of this period- at least during this PARTICULAR time period. THere is more evidence of handle make-up of earlier periods but gets slim in 900-1100.


Last edited by Jeremy V. Krause on Thu 02 Sep, 2010 4:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Vilkas V.




Location: norcal
Joined: 10 Aug 2009

Posts: 15

PostPosted: Thu 02 Sep, 2010 2:46 pm    Post subject: Re: More pics of the seax in progress         Reply with quote

Dustin R. Reagan wrote:

I made (heat-treated, ground & honed) all the engraving points I used in this process. Let me know if you are interested, and I can give more info on my engraving points.



I am currently working on a blade and I want to do some very simple inlay work. Can you detail your points and engraving techniques?
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Dustin R. Reagan





Joined: 09 May 2006

Posts: 264

PostPosted: Fri 03 Sep, 2010 12:57 pm    Post subject: Re: More pics of the seax in progress         Reply with quote

Vilkas V. wrote:

I am currently working on a blade and I want to do some very simple inlay work. Can you detail your points and engraving techniques?


Hi Vilkas,

Here are a some pictures of my engraving/inlay tools:

From top to bottom:

-Chisel handle which accepts 3/32" engraving points (http://www.airgraver.com/images/chisel.gif, but you could make your own)
-Brass punch, with textured tip (just rub it on 36 or 50 grit paper every once in awhile)
-Wide undercutting chisel point
-Narrow undercutting chisel point
-Detailing/Deep line graver point


Here's a closer pic:


Top down on detailing graver:


Side view of gravers:


Closeup (sorry, it's kind of blurry) of side of detailing graver:


Note the small curved belly or heel on the detailing graver (ignore the blunted tip, as I haven't re-sharpened it since finishing my last engraving project).

I made these points by ordering a 3 foot length of 3/32" x 3/32" W1 tool steel. I carefully heat-treated a length (about 10") of the W1 bar (normalized twice at 1550F, then 1500F, then austentized at 1480F, soaked at temp for 5 mins and quenched in a fast quench oil). Then, i put the bar in a vice and broke off 1.5" - 2" lengths ( in retrospect i should have made slightly longer tips...2.5" would be good). This is nice, because you can take a look at the grain-size of the hardened steel to make sure you heat-treated correctly (the grain should be extremely fine and even...like you would see on a broken file). Then I ground the rough shape of the tips on my belt grinder, and tempered once at 350F. This was too "chippy", so I re-tempered again at 375F (a very light straw color). Still slightly too chippy, so I tempered once more at 385F. This seems fine, but you should experiment on your own. Then I hand honed the tips on several grits of diamond hones.

The detailing graver is essentially a standard square graver, but instead of a 90deg, I narrowed it (by eye) probably to 80-85 degrees. It's up to you to choose a good angle for your application...smaller = more likely to break the tip, but cuts finer lines.

One of the most important part of how a graver cuts and handles is the graver heel. Most commercial gravers don't come with a heel, since it's such a personal preference sort of thing. I can't properly describe how to form a good heel...You can read more about all of this stuff at engravingforum.com or followingtheironbrush.org, but the best thing is just to experiment on your own with different tip geometries and heels on a practice plate.

Look previously in this thread for where i describe the process I used to do the engraving/inlay. I also included a link to a very good, thorough wire inlay tutorial by Ben Potter.

Let me know if you have any more questions.

Good luck,
Dustin
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Dustin R. Reagan





Joined: 09 May 2006

Posts: 264

PostPosted: Tue 07 Sep, 2010 11:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I had some time to work on this seax a little more this weekend. I finished shaping the handle, stained it, and started sealing it with linseed oil. Since I'm trying to use as many historically correct methods as I can (while not shunning my "electric apprentices" like the belt grinder), I used a simple home-made stain to stain the handle.

This consists simply of fine steel/iron filings (which i kept while working on this blade) dissolved in white wine vinegar. I let the mixture sit in the Southern California sun all day (letting it sit longer -- up to a week -- will give an even darker stain). It's pretty neat to watch the filings dissolve once the mixture heats up...you can see the released hydrogen (i believe) bubbling up. Makes you feel like a real alchemist!

Anyways, here was my procedure for the stain:

-Hand rub the handle all the way up to a shiny 2000 grit (this was over a couple nights, sitting on the porch, while my wife read). Apparently, the higher and more even the finish, the more smoothly the stain will take (makes sense).
-Gently and evenly heat the handle over the stove. Keep the handle moving and do not let it char.
-Brush the stain on evenly. Let sit for a minute or two and reheat the handle over the stove until the stain dries/evaporates.
-Repeat the application of the stain and heating until you are satisfied.
-Mix up some water and baking soda and rub this over the handle to neutralize any remaining acids.
-Let the handle dry (heat it gently over the stove again, if you prefer), and seal it (in my case with linseed oil).

Pictures don't do curly maple justice, as it has an almost 3d holographic effect as you shift it around relative to a light source, but here it is so far:



Thanks for looking,
Dustin
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Ted Bouck




Location: Northe East Ohio
Joined: 04 Jul 2007

Posts: 20

PostPosted: Wed 08 Sep, 2010 10:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Looking great Dustin!

Thanks also for the info and pics on the 3 chisels.

Is the lining / detail chisel rounded as it appears? Over the weekend I got som very interesting chisels from my Dad. he used to be a machine tool and Die guy, and he had die makers chisels that I remembered looking alot like what these are showing to be. I tried one on brass then steel when I got home and it works great. The liner chisel tip is very similar to what you use, as best as I can tell.

Cheers,
Ted
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Dustin R. Reagan





Joined: 09 May 2006

Posts: 264

PostPosted: Wed 08 Sep, 2010 10:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ted Bouck wrote:

Is the lining / detail chisel rounded as it appears?


The very tip is slightly rounded in the pictures, but as I mention here:

Dustin R. Reagan wrote:
(ignore the blunted tip, as I haven't re-sharpened it since finishing my last engraving project).


The tip should not be rounded off like this, though the curved belly or heel is purposeful (not sure exactly which part you are refering to?). A little rounding doesn't seem to change the ease with which one can engrave, but it seems to make the cut a little less clean and defined.
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Jeremy V. Krause




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PostPosted: Wed 08 Sep, 2010 11:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I am surprised that I like your wood choice as I was a bit skeptical seeing it before staining. In working with Tod I have developed an affection for boxwood but this maple is nice. I presume that maple is indigenous to Germany and/or England.

Would it be too much to have a shot of the spine?
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Dustin R. Reagan





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Posts: 264

PostPosted: Wed 08 Sep, 2010 12:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeremy V. Krause wrote:

Would it be too much to have a shot of the spine?


It still has a coating of crud (engraving pitch) on the spine. Once i'm done with the blade and have had a chance to clean it up, I'll post pictures from all angles. I'm still waiting to hear back about more information from the museum. If I don't hear back in the next couple of weeks, I'll just go ahead with the decoration I have planned for the other side of the blade.

Now, I've started preliminary work on the sheath, doing some practice leather work to get a feel for it and what sort of design I'll use.

Also, I'm still debating whether to add silver bands to the handle. Now that I see the handle completed, I have grown fond of the simple and clean handle, as is. But, I think silver bands decorated with the "dot-in-circle" motif would look nice (where the dots are tiny silver domed tacks), and would go well with the inlay design on the blade.

Dustin
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Jeremy V. Krause




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PostPosted: Wed 08 Sep, 2010 12:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dustin R. Reagan wrote:
Jeremy V. Krause wrote:

Would it be too much to have a shot of the spine?


It still has a coating of crud (engraving pitch) on the spine. Once i'm done with the blade and have had a chance to clean it up, I'll post pictures from all angles. I'm still waiting to hear back about more information from the museum. If I don't hear back in the next couple of weeks, I'll just go ahead with the decoration I have planned for the other side of the blade.

Now, I've started preliminary work on the sheath, doing some practice leather work to get a feel for it and what sort of design I'll use.

Also, I'm still debating whether to add silver bands to the handle. Now that I see the handle completed, I have grown fond of the simple and clean handle, as is. But, I think silver bands decorated with the "dot-in-circle" motif would look nice (where the dots are tiny silver domed tacks), and would go well with the inlay design on the blade.

Dustin


I think you could go either way on the handle. The kind of decoration you present could really be attractive IMO. Even just silver pics or pegs set into plain wood may be nice. You have a good vision for this small seax- and by good I mean a lack of "fantasy" or overly creative elements. Nothing ruins a seax like that stuff, for me at least. Wink
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Thomas R.




Location: Germany
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PostPosted: Wed 08 Sep, 2010 12:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Dustin,

sadly, no answer until now. But your seax looks really great! I hope the museum will respond to my e-mail in the next days.
Sad

Thomas

http://maerenundlobebaeren.tumblr.com/
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Dustin R. Reagan





Joined: 09 May 2006

Posts: 264

PostPosted: Wed 08 Sep, 2010 12:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thomas R. wrote:
Hi Dustin,

sadly, no answer until now. But your seax looks really great! I hope the museum will respond to my e-mail in the next days.
Sad

Thomas


No rush! I just do this as a hobby on weekends and some nights, so I'm not in a huge hurry. Thanks for sending the email, and let me know if you have any knife-making questions that I might help answer (probably best to PM me about it).

Dustin
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Thomas R.




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PostPosted: Thu 09 Sep, 2010 12:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Woohoo, Dustin! Sharp your tools. I've got a pic, and its gorgeous... but I have to go to work now, so I'll post it in the evening (central european time Happy )

It's really awesome!

http://maerenundlobebaeren.tumblr.com/
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Thomas R.




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PostPosted: Thu 09 Sep, 2010 8:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

So, now I've got the time to post the picture! The museum's response was very kindly and the man, I mailed with, showed interest in your work, Dustin. He asked, if he can see pictures of your seax. With your permission I will send him the link to this thread or just one of your WIP-pictures. If you send me your e-mail adress I can provide you with a much higher resolution of this picture.

So now have a look at it Big Grin
Thomas



 Attachment: 37.99 KB
Klinge_small.jpg
Backside of Dustins seax from Solingen Klingenmuseum/Germany.

http://maerenundlobebaeren.tumblr.com/
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Dustin R. Reagan





Joined: 09 May 2006

Posts: 264

PostPosted: Thu 09 Sep, 2010 10:13 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thomas R. wrote:
So, now I've got the time to post the picture! The museum's response was very kindly and the man, I mailed with, showed interest in your work, Dustin. He asked, if he can see pictures of your seax. With your permission I will send him the link to this thread or just one of your WIP-pictures. If you send me your e-mail adress I can provide you with a much higher resolution of this picture.

So now have a look at it Big Grin
Thomas


Wow! thanks very very much, Thomas. This is just another example of why myArmoury such a great place...

Please feel free to send the man any photos or links that you please (though let him know that I am using the inlay of this museum seax as inspiration for my inlay, but not for the shape of my blade, which is more of a honey-lane seax style).

Oh, and please tell him thank you for me!

Dustin
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Dustin R. Reagan





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PostPosted: Tue 14 Sep, 2010 1:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nearly done with the inlay on the opposite side of the blade. This has been much more challenging than the first side, so I'm glad I tried this second! Progress is slow and steady; hopefully I should find some time to finish the inlay tonight after putting my son to bed:

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Dustin R. Reagan





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PostPosted: Wed 15 Sep, 2010 10:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Finished the inlay, still need to do a little more filing to get the inlay cleaned up and nice and flush with the blade. Then, to do a final polish on the blade:

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Thomas R.




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PostPosted: Wed 15 Sep, 2010 12:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Dustin,

looks very good to me! Even better than the front side. It's really a unique piece now.

Regards,
Thomas

http://maerenundlobebaeren.tumblr.com/
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