Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Khyber Knives Reply to topic
Go to page 1, 2  Next 
Author Message
Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

PostPosted: Tue 22 Apr, 2008 1:58 pm    Post subject: Khyber Knives         Reply with quote

I know almost nothing about these Afghan knives. I've admired the general form on the rare occasion I've seen them and my interest was stirred while reading Flashman In the Great Game in recent weeks. By coincidence, somebody posted here a link to a new arms auction house that's offering several of these weapons. The more I look at these the more I like them. They remind of the German rugger. Slender lines, compact size, scale grips.... Does anybody know of decent reproductions or at least cheap indecent ones that could be remounted? I found no other significant discussion in these fora. Here are a few 19th c. examples from the auction site mentioned above. They're about 26" overall.


 Attachment: 65.36 KB, Viewed: 12661 times
item598a.jpg


 Attachment: 65.77 KB, Viewed: 12615 times
item598b.jpg


 Attachment: 77.18 KB, Viewed: 12607 times
item598c.jpg


 Attachment: 64.98 KB, Viewed: 12592 times
item598e.jpg


 Attachment: 66.72 KB, Viewed: 12530 times
item598f.jpg


 Attachment: 67.75 KB, Viewed: 12475 times
item601a.jpg


 Attachment: 68.19 KB, Viewed: 12407 times
item601g.jpg


 Attachment: 67.92 KB, Viewed: 12374 times
item601h.jpg


-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)


Last edited by Sean Flynt on Tue 22 Apr, 2008 2:10 pm; edited 4 times in total
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

PostPosted: Tue 22 Apr, 2008 2:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

More photos:


 Attachment: 66.33 KB, Viewed: 12293 times
item603a.jpg


 Attachment: 64.86 KB, Viewed: 12274 times
item603b.jpg


 Attachment: 86.81 KB, Viewed: 12243 times
item603c.jpg


 Attachment: 66.64 KB, Viewed: 12217 times
item606a.jpg


 Attachment: 68.46 KB, Viewed: 12193 times
item606b.jpg


 Attachment: 76.01 KB, Viewed: 12153 times
item606c.jpg


-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Gary A. Chelette




Usergroups: None

Location: Houston, Texas
Reading list: 2 books
Posts: 337
PostPosted: Tue 22 Apr, 2008 2:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

http://www.atlantacutlery.com/atlantacutlery/

Atlanta Cutlery use to have a similar knife for sale. You might give them a try.

See also: RUSSIAN KINDJAL
400318
or:

http://www.bytheswordinc.com/acatalog/Standard_Knives_Page_2.html

Are you scared, Connor?
No, Cousin Dugal. I'm not!
Don't talk nonsense, man. I peed my kilt the first time I went into battle.
Oh, aye. Angus pees his kilt all the time!
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Dan Dickinson




Usergroups: 
Donating Members
Industry Professionals

Location: Michigan
Posts: 963
PostPosted: Tue 22 Apr, 2008 7:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well Hanwei will soon be releasing Tristan's sword from the Movie stardust....which follows along the same general lines (with some yhatagan/fantasy influences thrown in)
Dan
View user's profile Send private message
Terry Crain




Usergroups: 
Donating Members

Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Likes: 2 pages
Posts: 224
PostPosted: Tue 22 Apr, 2008 9:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Sean,

I also have admired these knives (short swords really) for some time. Over the course of the last year, I have acquired three of these large Kyber Knives. Mine are approximately mid to late 19th century and are wicked sharp and fast. Each is unique.

I have not seen much in the way of reproductions, but like many middle eastern/indo persian/ islamic edged weapons, great buys of originals do appear on e-bay from time to time. Some antiques in poor condition are sold without reserve and may suit your purpose as a project (if you can bring yourself to work on an original, albeit one in poor condition)

Short of that, if I come across any reproduction sources I will post it. I can't believe some Indian maker isn't turning these out.....

Best regards,

Terry

Terry Crain
A/K/A
Donal Grant

Honor, not Honors!
View user's profile Send private message
Kelly Powell




Usergroups: None

Location: lawrence, kansas
Posts: 123
PostPosted: Tue 22 Apr, 2008 9:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Do not these style of knives have a strange "T" shape on the spine of the blade?
View user's profile Send private message
Terry Crain




Usergroups: 
Donating Members

Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Likes: 2 pages
Posts: 224
PostPosted: Tue 22 Apr, 2008 9:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Not sure what you mean by "strange", but yes, they do have a "T" cross section, with the "T" being at the top the blade opposite the sharped edge. I have heard this referred to as the yelmen (SP?) and is a common feature on these weapons. Strenghtens the blade and looks quite cool in my opinion, but maybe I am the strange one Big Grin
Terry Crain
A/K/A
Donal Grant

Honor, not Honors!
View user's profile Send private message
Shayan G




Usergroups: None


Posts: 140
PostPosted: Wed 23 Apr, 2008 2:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for posting those pictures! I'm drooling already. Wink

If you try the By The Sword one, please share your thoughts on its quality. I'm trying to choose between that and a Qama for my next cheap fun Islamic short sword.

As to yelman, I've only heard that used for the "false edge" on Turkish pala, but I'm not an expert by any means!

You have to be a man, first, before you can be a gentleman!
~the immortal John Wayne
View user's profile Send private message
Nick Hughes




Usergroups: None


Posts: 5
PostPosted: Wed 23 Apr, 2008 2:27 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I was told that the T shape to the blade cross section was to stiffen the point of the blade to allow it to pierce chain mail more easily.
Nick
View user's profile Send private message
Korey J. Lavoie




Usergroups: None

Location: New Hampshire, USA
Posts: 63
PostPosted: Thu 24 Apr, 2008 2:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Terry Crain wrote:
Not sure what you mean by "strange", but yes, they do have a "T" cross section, with the "T" being at the top the blade opposite the sharped edge. I have heard this referred to as the yelmen (SP?) and is a common feature on these weapons. Strenghtens the blade and looks quite cool in my opinion, but maybe I am the strange one Big Grin


Beautiful knives but I'm turned off by the thought of how that cross-section would affect cutting ability.

From the hundred year war
To the Crimea
With a Lance and a Musket and a Roman Spear
To all of the Men who have stood with no fear
In the Service of the King
-The Clash: The Card Cheat
View user's profile Send private message
Shayan G




Usergroups: None


Posts: 140
PostPosted: Thu 24 Apr, 2008 3:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well much of the rest of the blade is thin or moderately thick, the idea being that the spine strengthens it like an I-beam (see Mr. Trim's new sparring design? same idea) while minimizing their thickness at the edge. Thus you get a thin but very tough blade, ideal for chopping through. By the time the T spine passes through, the cut is already wide enough to make its effect negligible, barring bad cutting angle and user error.
You have to be a man, first, before you can be a gentleman!
~the immortal John Wayne
View user's profile Send private message
Korey J. Lavoie




Usergroups: None

Location: New Hampshire, USA
Posts: 63
PostPosted: Thu 24 Apr, 2008 6:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Shayan G wrote:
Well much of the rest of the blade is thin or moderately thick, the idea being that the spine strengthens it like an I-beam (see Mr. Trim's new sparring design? same idea) while minimizing their thickness at the edge. Thus you get a thin but very tough blade, ideal for chopping through. By the time the T spine passes through, the cut is already wide enough to make its effect negligible, barring bad cutting angle and user error.


I understand how that would make for a very strong blade but it seems to me that it would be a trade-off for a potentially significant reduction in cutting ability on soft-targets. Cutting tests with this type of cross-section might make me reconsider that assumption of course.

From the hundred year war
To the Crimea
With a Lance and a Musket and a Roman Spear
To all of the Men who have stood with no fear
In the Service of the King
-The Clash: The Card Cheat
View user's profile Send private message
Ken Speed




PostPosted: Thu 24 Apr, 2008 6:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Korey,

You wrote, "Beautiful knives but I'm turned off by the thought of how that cross-section would affect cutting ability."

The T rib doesn't go all the way to the tip of the knife and wouldn't cause a problem either in slashing or stabbing while it would give a thin blade a lot of strength and rigidity. I think these are very well designed weapons.Bear in mind that these knives are from the Khyber Pass area, Afghanistan, and the Afghanis have been killing people ( invaders, each other, Hindus) since the time of Hannibal if not before.



Regards,


Ken
View user's profile Send private message
Kelly Powell




Usergroups: None

Location: lawrence, kansas
Posts: 123
PostPosted: Fri 25 Apr, 2008 4:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Terry Crane....I meant "strange" as in a unusual feature that I have never seen before...I couldnt judge if you are strange or not....But I have been called it and some of my best friends are odd little people Big Grin , so that is not too negative a word in my lexicon!
Theory: would the T-back allow them to block weapons that would normally damage a similar blade of that size/thickness? Not that this was a reason for such construction, but more of a happy accident.
And historically , what is the naitive metallurgy like? Do they have a rep either good or bad? Could the T-back have been a way for them to compensate for bad steel?
View user's profile Send private message
Ken Speed




PostPosted: Fri 25 Apr, 2008 7:58 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Kelly,

You wrote, ""Do not these style of knives have a strange "T" shape on the spine of the blade?"

I just remembered that I once owned an old sword bayonet that had a blade that was nearly two feet long and it had a T cross section for all but six inches or so of the tip. My guess is that the bayonet was German in the general sense inasmuch as the script and the language of the engraving on the blade seemed Germanic. That T cross section must not be all that strange, I'm sure those bayonets and similar ones must have been made in the hundreds of thousands.

Its a great way to provide rigidity and still keep weight down in a blade.

Regards,


Ken
View user's profile Send private message
Glen A Cleeton




Usergroups: 
Donating Members

Location: Nipmuc USA
Posts: 1,451
PostPosted: Fri 25 Apr, 2008 8:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The AH prefix offerings linked are Deepeeka products and have a kind of dissapointing look to the blade crossections. I'm afraid that might be the result from any of the producers and exporters from the area. If one is happy with the overall profile, I guess they might suit. The HAnwei prototype seems to at least nod to the crossection. I know my yataghan has a pretty serioushollow to the grind that kind of mimics this to and extent but the cutting edges of these seem even thinner. Hard to tell from the pictures alone i guess.

Cheers

GC
View user's profile Send private message
Terry Crain




Usergroups: 
Donating Members

Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Likes: 2 pages
Posts: 224
PostPosted: Fri 25 Apr, 2008 6:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I agree with Ken regarding the fact that there really is no issue with the T-back creating a problem with cutting ability or effectiveness as a weapon to be used for its purpose. Many eastern swords and knives have this feature including the Kilij, some Saifs and many Shamshirs.

There are two threads listed in this index right now which have many pictures of middle eastern swords with this feature. The Kilij in particular was known as a very effective weapon utilized by the Ottoman Turks, who knew a thing or two about warfare and the art edged weapon combat.

The Kyber Knife is generally a short sword sized weapon used to stab and hack. Its not a cutting exercise weaponby any means. The blades are very sharp and mine are quite light and lively with most of the weight in sitting in your fist, it has very little blade presence. ... That being said, they are very nasty , and feel quite deadly and as an unarmoured opponent, I certainly would not want to face one!!!

Terry Crain
A/K/A
Donal Grant

Honor, not Honors!
View user's profile Send private message
Dan Dickinson




Usergroups: 
Donating Members
Industry Professionals

Location: Michigan
Posts: 963
PostPosted: Sat 26 Apr, 2008 5:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I agree that the Deepeeka offering probably isn't of the best quality. However, a slightly better photo from their website seems to show that they could possibly feature the T section (or it could just be a fuller I suppose).
Dan
View user's profile Send private message
Anders Backlund




Usergroups: 
Donating Members

Location: Sweden
Posts: 628
PostPosted: Sat 26 Apr, 2008 8:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dan Dickinson wrote:
Well Hanwei will soon be releasing Tristan's sword from the Movie stardust....which follows along the same general lines (with some yhatagan/fantasy influences thrown in)
Dan


I did wonder about that one. I kept wondering if it was an obscure real-life sword that just sort of slipped under my radar of if the propmasters made it up from multiple sources.

There's some clear yathagan inspiration there. Though, is it just me or does it also have a lot of scramaseax and butterfly sword influences?

The sword is an ode to the strife of mankind.

"This doesn't look easy... but I bet it is!"
-Homer Simpson.
View user's profile Send private message
Shayan G




Usergroups: None


Posts: 140
PostPosted: Sat 26 Apr, 2008 6:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Looks like a khyber knife to me, down to the imitation koftgari on the blade. The only difference would be the tulwar-like handguard.

Very appealing blade all around!

You have to be a man, first, before you can be a gentleman!
~the immortal John Wayne
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Khyber Knives
Page 1 of 2 Reply to topic
Go to page 1, 2  Next All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2013 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum