myArmoury.com - Baltic tribe's artefacts

Posts: 72 Location: Estonia

Sun 06 Feb, 2011 11:53 am

Arunas Bugvilionis wrote:

OK. From Curronian peninsula comes 5 helmets of the same typolology (like Durbe Dziru and Libagu Saraji,replica's photos in the posts above) from 4 burials: Piltenes Pasilciems, Kuldiga, Durbes Diri and Libagu Saraji(in that burial is founded two similar helmets). Sixth helmet of that typology comes from Pavirvyte Gudai(Lithuania),peryphery place of Semigallians and Curronians with very strong influences of Curronian millitary force.
All Latvian findings are dated to the 12th - the beginning of 13th C.
Lithuanian finding is dated to 11th-12th C.

So,that You want to know?

Within the attached file is artefact from Libagu Saraji.

Does any of those helmets have a face guard? I would very much like to use a helmet that has been found so close to estonia, but in our fighting system id peobably loose my teeth without a faceguard. :lol:

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Artis Aboltins

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Posts: 530

Sun 06 Feb, 2011 12:09 pm

Robert Rootslane wrote:

Arunas Bugvilionis wrote:

OK. From Curronian peninsula comes 5 helmets of the same typolology (like Durbe Dziru and Libagu Saraji,replica's photos in the posts above) from 4 burials: Piltenes Pasilciems, Kuldiga, Durbes Diri and Libagu Saraji(in that burial is founded two similar helmets). Sixth helmet of that typology comes from Pavirvyte Gudai(Lithuania),peryphery place of Semigallians and Curronians with very strong influences of Curronian millitary force.
All Latvian findings are dated to the 12th - the beginning of 13th C.
Lithuanian finding is dated to 11th-12th C.

So,that You want to know?

Within the attached file is artefact from Libagu Saraji.

Does any of those helmets have a face guard? I would very much like to use a helmet that has been found so close to estonia, but in our fighting system id peobably loose my teeth without a faceguard. :lol:

None have a clearly distinguishable faceguards of any sorts, although on one of helmets from Libagu Saraji the appropriate area of the helm is heavily rusted, and thus we can not 100% exclude possibility of some sort of noseguard. Sadly, that is as far as it gets - none of them have pronounced face protection. We in Latvia use rather similar combat system so I share your pain in that regard - but only solution we have come up with for now would be to have a combat helmet with added noseguard of some sort, possibly painted in such a way to make it less noticiable.

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Ralph Grinly

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Posts: 330

Sun 06 Feb, 2011 12:28 pm

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Hmm, Arunas, the thing that makes me doubt a direct connection is that the Baltic version of "antenae hilt" appears in second part of the 10th century, while the Scythian and Celtic swords with such hilts are much older. I have talked on that mater with Maris Atgazis and some other archaeologists specializing in weapons here in Latvia and they also are leaning towards the idea that it is a purely local development at that time period.

Sure..there's a huge time difference between the ealier and later swords. But, I'm sure the connection *could* conceviably exist. I'm sure it's possibe that some 10th C Latvian dug up some bronze age sword, showed it off to some swordsmith and started a fashion. After all, if we do same today- they could back then.

Of course, there's no way to prove that- I'm probably quite wrong..but it can't be ruled out as ïmpossible":)

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Arunas Bugvilionis

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Posts: 41 Location: Lithuania, Baltic tribes, Vilkatlakai

Sun 06 Feb, 2011 11:42 pm

I'm agree with Artis.These helmets are like a Curronian trademark :) Six helms from the same area is rear thing in archeology. This is specific Curronian helm, and all connections with Livs will be a speculations. Continue that speculation You could use an Eastern Lithuanian helms as well, because they often robed Livs and bring them some influences.

About Pavirvyte-Gudai, this is not 100 % Semigallian burial. As I told before this burial is within the Semigalian and Curronian peryphery. It seems that in that place Curronians has some kind of colony. Curronian burials are separate from Semigallian burials and they are much more richer in armoury and buried on the highest place. It seems that Curronias here has a big control on Semigallians.

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Arunas Bugvilionis

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Posts: 41 Location: Lithuania, Baltic tribes, Vilkatlakai

Sun 06 Feb, 2011 11:51 pm

Thats the same I mean about, Ralf. I think it's not a coincidens that "antena" swords appears concretelly in Curronian area. Curronians was one of few Baltic tribes who traveled a lot with their ships, robbed a lot and traded a lot as well. They are offten named as Baltic Vikings.

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J. Kari

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Posts: 21 Location: Estonia

Tue 15 Feb, 2011 11:47 am

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You could use an Eastern Lithuanian helms as well, because they often robed Livs and bring them some influences.

Could you provide any pictures/works on those Lithuanian helms?

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Arunas Bugvilionis

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Posts: 41 Location: Lithuania, Baltic tribes, Vilkatlakai

Thu 17 Feb, 2011 11:50 pm

Sorry, Kari it was a some kind of joke :cool: But if You want to see an Eastern Lithuanian helmets, plz go to this link: http://vilkatlakai.lt/index.php/balt-ginkluot/almai/170

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Lorenzo Chinaglia

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Posts: 15 Location: Italy

Sat 18 Aug, 2012 6:53 am

Hello at all , very interesting discussion . I ve two pieces from this period and area in my private collection ... here the pictures .

All the best
Lorenzo

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antenna sword.jpg

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Anders Backlund

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Posts: 629 Location: Sweden

Sat 18 Aug, 2012 10:45 am

Huh, that's a type of sword I've never even heard of before. Interesting stuff.

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Tim Lison

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Posts: 1,606 Location: Chicago, Illinois

Sat 18 Aug, 2012 8:26 pm

Brilliant! Can we see some photos of the sword's blade please?

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Scott Woodruff

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Posts: 605

Wed 22 Aug, 2012 9:48 pm

I second that. It is very exciting to see another example of the Baltic antennae-pommel swords.

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Artis Aboltins

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Posts: 530

Thu 23 Aug, 2012 12:37 am

Intriguing pictures! Do you have, by chance, any more information on the helmet? It seems to be unlike others found in our area so it would be very, very interesting to learn more.

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Lorenzo Chinaglia

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Posts: 15 Location: Italy

Sun 28 Oct, 2012 3:59 pm

I m sorry for the long delay i rarely look the pc ....

I will post others photos of this sword. It is one of my favorite piece in collection ....
Regarding the helmet it was from an old collection in Vienna and bought in later 1960 from a russian dealer , of sure the origin is russian or east europena but very hard to tell, the form is similar olso at turkish and others asian helmets ....

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Lorenzo Chinaglia

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Posts: 15 Location: Italy

Mon 29 Oct, 2012 4:50 pm

this is another exemple from a catalogue but not with antenna version pommel ...

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Robert Muse

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Posts: 494 Location: Washington

Mon 29 Oct, 2012 8:25 pm

Sword

Hello Arunas,
I would really love your sword. Much information is in Kazakevičius V. IX-XIII a. Baltu kalavijay which is partly in English. It is also on line if you look at my posting in the off topic section.

Robert

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