The Medieval Signet Ring -- myArmoury.com

Joshua Anthony · Posted: Thu 06 Oct, 2011 8:56 am Post subject:

And here is my ancestry to the Plantagenet family. Keep in mind this is just one line, but this and the above post are all verified from several independent sources.

King Henry Plantagenet II (1133 - 1189)
is your 26th great grandfather

John Plantagenet (1166 - 1216)
Son of King Henry

King Henry III Plantagenet (1206 - 1272)
Son of John

Edward I Plantagenet (1239 - 1307)
Son of King Henry III

Joan Plantagenet (1271 - 1307)
Daughter of Edward I

Eleanore de CLARE (1292 - 1337)
Daughter of Joan

Philip Le DESPENCER (1244 - 1313)
Son of Eleanore de

Philip Le DESPENCER (1313 - 1349)
Son of Philip Le

Philip Le DESPENCER (1342 - 1401)
Son of Philip Le

Philip Despencer (1365 - 1424)
Son of Philip Le

Margery Le Despencer (1397 - 1478)
Daughter of Philip

Henry Wentworth (1429 - 1482)
Son of Margery

Roger Wentworth (1480 - 1551)
Son of Henry

Margery Wentworth (1500 - 1532)
Daughter of Roger

John Berney (1503 - 1557)
Son of Margery

Mary Berney (1533 - )
Daughter of John

Thomas Stiles (1550 - 1614)
Son of Mary

John Stiles (1595 - 1662)
Son of Thomas

Henry Stiles (1629 - 1724)
Son of John

Henry Stiles (1664 - 1747)
Son of Henry

Amos Stiles (1702 - 1758)
Son of Henry

Henry Stiles (1730 - 1810)
Son of Amos

Margaret Stiles (1758 - 1827)
Daughter of Henry

Theodosia Bond (1790 - )
Daughter of Margaret

Mary Ann Boyden (1812 - 1891)
Daughter of Theodosia

Augustine William Prevost (1836 - 1897)
Son of Mary Ann

Lillian Merriam Prevost (1873 - 1954)
Daughter of Augustine William

Helen Augusta Bosselle (1897 - 1977)
Daughter of Lillian Merriam

And finally to my mother whose name I will keep private.

Gregory J. Liebau · Posted: Thu 06 Oct, 2011 11:34 am Post subject:

Bravo, Joshua... On both a fine commission, and a well-researched geneology. I am also interested in geneology, but am always first a conscientious, skeptical historian. I read your post and immediately couldn't help but think such claims bogus, but decided to hold my tongue. I'm glad I did - your account of the Marshal and Plantagenet lineages seem believable and perfectly sensible. Truly, millions of Americans are descended from England's long succession of nobility and namesakes! I have few resources available to trace my majority German and Croatian ancestry (both through insignificant family lines), but I may have to delve deeper into the English side of things through my paternal grandmother, considering the success your mother met with in her own research! Cheers.

-Gregory

William Jordan Harmon · Posted: Thu 06 Oct, 2011 3:15 pm Post subject:

Congrats Joshua, I am very jealous of how far back you have been able to research your family, I too like to research my family tree but i have not gotten anywhere close to how far you have gone, and with your last couple of posts i am sure you have put the(at least some) skepticism to rest. and i was wondering, which family crest did you end up choosing for your signet ring?

Joshua Anthony · Posted: Thu 06 Oct, 2011 3:27 pm Post subject:

William Jordan Harmon · Posted: Thu 06 Oct, 2011 8:28 pm Post subject:

thats perfectly understandable. Maybe i will save up for one of these. Congrats on your ring Big Grin

Daniel Wallace · Posted: Sun 09 Oct, 2011 4:42 pm Post subject:

i posted to this today but lost the post due to an ugly connection so i'll paraphrase again what i had in the original post.

josh your research has seemed to find you great results and i'm not going to argue with you at all over something like linage. were not here to debate that. it's cool to see someone being able to link themselves to historical individuals. i know that my sir name is linked with a great hero of the middle ages - but i'm slovak in origin. my sir name was changed from 'volos' to Wallace when my family came to the states in the migration of the early 1900's. and my sir name only leads to some eastern european town that doesn't exist anymore. i have no coat of arms or anything fancy nothing that links me back to before 1900. i always wished that i had something though that would link me to the past, before my family came over on the boats, but nothing has ever been past down. and more than anything else i think that's what you have done here with your project, your giving your kin something that will give them a chance to look back at where roots are from - possibly long after your gone (and in God's grace.)

i unexpectedly had a project that might have had a similar outcome. i had been playing with metal for a few years now in my past time and was inspired by a wedding band i saw with an inlay inside the band stating 'love and obey.' well i played around with the idea for a while and made a ring of iron inscribed on the inside of the band was the word 'cherished' and polished to a mirror polish. i made the ring a tab bit small, but my g/f liked it so much she tied it on one day, and it fit perfectly on that very finger that it should have. with that i was ready to make myself a mate to the ring. i don't think i could ever buy something more meaningful or would have that much value. how many people in the future would be able to say, "your grandpa made this ring for your grandma.' and totally mean MADE IT.

unfortunately we split up and the mate was never made. the ring i made was too meaningful to me to be placed away in a box and it doesn't feel right to give it away to anyone else. i have the ring in my li'l shop being reworked to fit my finger, it will serve as a reminder to me of a time when someone seemed to care very much about me. but there was an addition to my family in the past week my brother and his wife had their first daughter, and i'm already thinking maybe one day it will be hers.

Joshua Anthony · Posted: Sun 09 Oct, 2011 7:36 pm Post subject:

Very cool story Daniel. Hand made objects really are so much more meaningful than anything you could buy off a department store shelf. I'm sure anyone would be very lucky to have you give it to them as a gift. The memories they invoke really are priceless.

The thing I like about my signet ring is that same hand made quality; from the design to the gem carving it was all done by hand, and it gives off a certain Old World vibe that can't be beat. I'm sure others on this forum get the same feeling when they wear armor or wield a sword created just for them. Hand made craftsmanship in a mass produced world is worth every penny IMHO.

Daniel Wallace · Posted: Mon 10 Oct, 2011 4:00 pm Post subject:

it's why i go nuts over ben potter's work. and so many others. everything feels like it's 'produced' on a factory floor the hand made qualities that we once had for things just doesn't seem to be there anymore. sadly when people can pay a lesser price for an item due to mass production they don't seem to care about craftsmanship when i see the total opposite.

if you get other commissions done in the future Joshua i'm pretty sure that there's gonna be a bunch of people here that would appreciate you sharing it and your story about it.

A. Elema · Posted: Wed 12 Oct, 2011 9:03 am Post subject:

It seems a little strange to me that the first Philip le Despencer on that list was born before his mother.

Joshua Anthony · Posted: Wed 12 Oct, 2011 9:30 am Post subject:

Thanks for pointing that out. In genealogical research there is always some confusion about dates simply because of the repetition in the use of surnames by several generations (in this case "Despencer" or "Le Despencer") added with the common practice of naming the son after the father (in this case three or four generations of a son being named Philip if I recall correctly) which isn't seen very often today. It doesn't not mean the lineage isn't sound.

A. Elema · Posted: Wed 12 Oct, 2011 9:43 am Post subject:

But it does mean that the genealogist wasn't detail-conscious. A list alone is not evidence of sound historical research. Only proper documentation of the sources can show that.

Joshua Anthony · Posted: Wed 12 Oct, 2011 10:15 am Post subject:

Actually, I have found that because there are so many freshmen (to put it politely) users on popular genealogical websites like ancestry.com, the dates often get screwed up. In our genealogical research, when we catch an error like that, we go to other more reliable sources like The Royal Ancestry Bible. It doesn't mean we aren't "detail conscious" or have other supporting documentation. We enter what we have at the time (like a place holder if you will), then go back and fill in the blanks later on when other sources contradict or confirm the information we have. That's the nature of genealogical research.

In this case, we found that Eleanore was married to a later Philip de Le Despencer, whose dates coincide, and gave birth to another Philip, who in turn had a son named Philip. Never fear, we are on the case, and confident that the lineage is right.

Joshua Anthony · Posted: Wed 12 Oct, 2011 10:21 am Post subject:

P.S. This posting was a simply to get the word out on a great signet ring project, and I certainly never anticipated having to defend my lineage with "sound historical research." I published a simple list so people could get an idea of what I based my claims on, never as the final word on my family or methods, so please keep that in mind and let's try to stay on topic.

Daniel Wallace · Posted: Sat 22 Oct, 2011 3:13 pm Post subject:

well Josh you inspired me to finally finish on my ring project as well. the photo is rather blurry it couldn't pic up all the details. of the finer work i put into it. the edge of the ring is make with what called a 'rolling ribbon' pattern which you can bearly make out. but thanks for the inspiration.

Joshua Anthony · Posted: Sat 22 Oct, 2011 5:19 pm Post subject:

Very cool Daniel! Thanks for keeping us posted about your project. I'm sure whoever you give it to will treasure it.

Aaron Hoard · Posted: Sat 22 Oct, 2011 11:32 pm Post subject:

Well, if I looked back into my lineage, my crest would probably be two beer cans (empty) and a wheel of cheese.

Let me just say that ring looks fantastic. There is definitely something appealing about having an item that could be passed down through the generations - that ring would definitely fit the bill.

Regardless of who your lineage goes back to, that ring will always be traced back to you, and that's not a bad thing.

Tom King · Posted: Sun 23 Oct, 2011 12:01 pm Post subject:

not to stir the fire, but the term "direct descendant" is what most likely has sparked so much controversy over your genealogy. Many people most likely assumed you meant you were the first son of the first son of the first son etc. back to all your notable far flung relatives instead of the much more believable path presented by your genealogy that shows that you are loosely related to William marshal and the like.

Joshua Anthony · Posted: Sun 23 Oct, 2011 12:43 pm Post subject:

Bryan W. · Posted: Sun 23 Oct, 2011 1:08 pm Post subject:

"You can ask whether everyone in the Western world is descended from Charlemagne, and the answer is yes, we're all descended from Charlemagne. But can you prove it? That's the game of genealogy." -Mark Humphrys

If people really want to continue down the argument of "no you're not related to so and so" I am happy to link some statistical papers on the subject matter explaining the likelihood of such although having a mathematical background helps in understanding them. I think its great that Mr. Anthony has attempted to research his background whether or not people feel something is "legitimate" or otherwise.

Back to the topic at hand: The ring is very nice. I always considered having something like a signet ring made for myself to pass along down the line. My father has one himself.

Was there a reason on choosing the stone other than price? A significance to the color? Or was it just something you liked?

Joshua Anthony · Posted: Sun 23 Oct, 2011 1:22 pm Post subject: