Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search

We rely on the support of our members to help keep myArmoury.com operating
Please consider Enhancing Your Account or Making a Donation. Visit our Contributor Center to read more about how you can help.
This message is not shown to members who have an active subscription or are recent members of the Donating Members usergroup.

Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Late Migration era scabbard suspension system? Reply to topic
 
Author Message
Barrett Hiebert




PostPosted: Wed 25 Jan, 2012 8:34 am    Post subject: Late Migration era scabbard suspension system?         Reply with quote

Hey forum,

I'll be getting a scabbard for my training sword made and want a historically correct suspension system to be able to attach it to my hip. Though doing a search I have not been able to come up with anything of worth and was wondering if the forum could help me out in showing me what would of been used (material and type of suspension system). Thanks.

Regards,

Barrett Hiebert
View user's profile Send private message
Johan Gemvik




Usergroups: None

Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 793
PostPosted: Wed 25 Jan, 2012 10:16 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Barrett!
What culture style do you want? Scandinavian? British isles? Carolingian (central Europe)?

On this related thread you can see some typical viking age and some late medieval suspesion systems, some are useable for migration era as well. http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=24495
Make particular note of Matthew Bunkers photo, this type is from typical migration period, though the finds I've seen have two pyramid shaped buckles where the square seams are on this one.

"The Dwarf sees farther than the Giant when he has the giant's shoulder to mount on" -Coleridge
View user's profile Send private message
Barrett Hiebert




PostPosted: Wed 25 Jan, 2012 6:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Johan,

Well the boss on my shield will be of a merovingian type. I would prefer a general (central european) style of suspension system though a eastern european one would do just fine as well.

Regards,

Barrett Hiebert
View user's profile Send private message
Matthew Bunker




Usergroups: None

Location: Somerset UK
Posts: 343
PostPosted: Thu 26 Jan, 2012 12:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

So, is it a Merovingian style that you want? 'Late Migration' means different things in different cultures. Pin it down to a culture and a century sir!

The study and recreation of Migration period/early medieval scabbards is my speciality and there are lots of systems to choose from.
Although we can identify lots of different elements of early medieval scabbard suspension, we don't know how each of them were used; there is, for example, no concensus on how the pyramids were used (some are hollow with a bar across the back, some are solid but pierced from base to apex with a hole, some or metal, some are bone etc) or how the buttons/studs bore the weight of suspension.

Off the top of my head, you could chooose from:-
A simple loop running around the scabbard, fixed to a belt/baldric (as in the scabbard that Johan provided a link to....pyramids can be utilised to provide a similar effect)

A single or multiple scabbard runners, thorugh which a belt or baldric runs. Again pyramids (or buttons/bosses) can be utilised on such a system to prevent the free movement of the scabbard on the belt)

A strap running across the front of the scabbard which is connected to a belt running across the back of the scabbard. Connection can be made by stitching, by nails that run through both straps, by nails that run through both straps AND the scabbard. Some scabbards have copper alloy edge reinforcements to help with this.

Single or paired studs/buttons/bosses fixed either into the face of the scabbard or onto a tight fitting loop. These buttons go thorugh slits in the belt/baldric.

These are, I think, the commonest methods. You can find examples of some of these in my photobucket album:-
http://s418.photobucket.com/albums/pp263/medi...d%20stuff/

and there are some drawings of the various methods in Menghin's "Das Schwert im Fruhen Mittelalter", which Peter Johnsson posted some time ago:-
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/download.php?id=17502
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/download.php?id=17501
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/download.php?id=17500
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/download.php?id=17499

Then there are the eastern two point suspension systems....which is another subject altogether.

"If a Greek can do it, two Englishman certainly can !"
View user's profile Send private message
Barrett Hiebert




PostPosted: Wed 01 Feb, 2012 1:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hey Matthew,

Sorry for the late reply. Which method of the most common methods shown in your experience do you find to be the most secure? And yes I am keeping it to Late Migration era Merovingian culture. I like the merovingian style boss and the behmer type 6 sword is my favourite and perfectly in line with a late migration era merovingian warrior.

Regards,

Barrett Hiebert
View user's profile Send private message
Matthew Bunker




Usergroups: None

Location: Somerset UK
Posts: 343
PostPosted: Wed 01 Feb, 2012 3:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What do you mean by 'secure'?
"If a Greek can do it, two Englishman certainly can !"
View user's profile Send private message
Barrett Hiebert




PostPosted: Wed 01 Feb, 2012 3:11 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I mean by 'secure' the most tight fitting to my body possible that the scabbard would allow me to wear the sword.
View user's profile Send private message
Matthew Bunker




Usergroups: None

Location: Somerset UK
Posts: 343
PostPosted: Wed 01 Feb, 2012 3:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Barrett Hiebert wrote:
I mean by 'secure' the most tight fitting to my body possible that the scabbard would allow me to wear the sword.


Waistbelt suspension is a tighter fit to the body than a baldric. With a tight waistbelt, the sword sits high on the body, with the pommel coming up to the bottom of the ribs or even higher. It doesn't make for a particularly quick draw but then that wasn't an issue.

Wasitbelt running through a slider with buttons or pyramids fitted either side will stop the scabbard from sliding on the belt, as would rivetting/nailing through the scabbard edge reinforcement.

"If a Greek can do it, two Englishman certainly can !"
View user's profile Send private message
Barrett Hiebert




PostPosted: Wed 01 Feb, 2012 4:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Matthew,

Would this be what you are referring to?

Quote:
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/download.php?id=17502


Barrett
View user's profile Send private message
Matthew Bunker




Usergroups: None

Location: Somerset UK
Posts: 343
PostPosted: Wed 01 Feb, 2012 4:25 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Not really. A lower slung belt with a secondary suspension will angle the scabbard forward which keeps it free of the legs but it makes for a loser fit as the belt sits on the hip rather than being tight to the waist.

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/download.php?id=17499

Fixing a tight waistbelt to a scabbard using a system like the Krefeld Gellep Grave 43 or 31 will ensure a scabbard that is tight to the body and which won't move around on the belt.

You could utilise the same mouting method on a baldric rather than a wasitbelt but then you need a secondary waistbelt over the top of the baldric to keep the whole rig form moving around..

"If a Greek can do it, two Englishman certainly can !"
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Late Migration era scabbard suspension system?
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum



All contents © Copyright 2003-2013 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum