From what I have read on the different forums, no refunds are being issued as of now and Gus is working the back orders as he has time to finish them. He is also working on his new higher end line.

Tom at T&T is in a wait status for the swords to be completed and has recently posted on SBG:

"Gus is finishing up a batch of I-beams that have been on his to-do list for a while. once those are done, and it should be any day, he is diving back into sharps. while he was working on the I-beams a number of sharps piled up in the shop so hopefully in couple weeks we'll see a batch of sharps heading to their homes."

Unfortunately, they are in a trap that is very difficult to get out of.

At this point I'm starting to think that there is a chance that I might never get the T&T sword that I've paid for. I'd like advice from the community- should I hold out longer for the chance that the order might go through or should I open a dispute with paypal? what would you guys do?
Thanks

My understanding is there is a time limit to file a claim.

If this is a pattern we see from a maker which is the case with the previous pay for the machine sale and such, why do customers place an order for any out of stock items? Understand some new buyers might not be aware and did not do research on the maker and past business practices. It would also be difficult for me on a personal level to purchase a sword that is recently made when it is common knowledge that past orders from the maker have not been completed.

I have had some custom swords that ran well over schedule but the makers completed the swords in the order they were received and kept me updated.

Bad business.

Please note that several months ago, Tried and True was removed from the Industry Professionals group here on myArmoury.com for not responding to any of my attempts to communicate with them. I reached out to inquire about the several reports of questionable business practices that were brought to my attention. Without a response, I was left without any choice but to remove them from the group to prevent them from conducting any further business here.

Not looking very good for those customers who gave their money and trust to this company/individual.

So do we know of the very latest individual to have received a sword from T and T? and how long ago was that?

http://www.sword-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&...1ca3190a3a

This is the most recent communication I know of, from the Sword Buyers Guide forum.

I have gotten out of the habit of taking these issues public, but I ordered several bare blades from Gus around the time of the "Pay Off the Machines Sale", paid $1080 up front and never recieved any of them. I have attempted to contact Gus a number of times over the intervening years, and did manage to get ahold of Tom about a year or so ago, without any satisfactory result.
I, as well as many other customers, helped pay for the machines that Gus is using to produce swords for more recent orders and stock items, while ignoring his previous obligations. I don't think that was his intent at the outset, but neither Gus or Tom have shown any willingness whatsoever to make good on it with me. I would take legal action at this point if there were any reasonable way for me to do so. I strongly recommend against doing business with them on any level.

I think it's important for these issues to become public. I certainly think that a matter-of-fact method of discussing them is required while avoiding any bashing or personal crusades.

Had I had more information on the outstanding issues with the maker in question, I would likely have not allowed another venture related to the maker, such as Tried and True, to enter the Industry Professionals group. Most of the reports came to my attention very, very late and after things started to repeat themselves.

When approached recently by a new vendor for ATrim items, Evolution Arms, I was assured that only in-stock items would be sold and no money would be received until an item was in hand. This was a part of the vetting process and was the only way that I would allow entry into the group given the history of this maker. I was reassured by the business model and feel more confident that there won't be a repeat of past problems.

I want to insulate the membership here from unscrupulous businesses or even risky ventures as much as possible. I failed in this case.

I agree Nathan did what he could already. Many of us were trying to be "understanding and forgiving", thus not disclosing any bad business issue right away for Nathan to act accordingly.

And from Justin's posts, I'm smelling something so similar to my case. Sigh...

These business practices are a broken record that just keeps on spinning in the sword collecting community. This is at least the fifth instance of a trusted maker in the community absconding with people's money that I can recall since I started collecting. Its always the same, after an interval of apparently great product execution, people in the community really trust the maker. More money (orders) start being accepted but items suddenly flow much slower or stop being delivered. Because they can't get answers paying customers eventually start posting questions on the forums. Fan-boys come out of the woodwork making every excuse in the world for the maker. Praising the product and promising that the wait will be worth it. The maker or his advocates make promises to try this or to do that. You just have to give them time and all will be right!

Then...eventually...they just go silent.

The fan-boys, realization upon them, go away and the community finally understands that there is a real problem at hand.

Its also the second or third time that I can recall one of these guys absconding with money and then trying to rise from their corruption as if nothing really happened. They have a new business name or a new front man. Still the same guy running the show on the back end. Not to worry though, they were just overwhelmed by life the last time or something to that effect gets discussed on the forum circuit. All that they didn't do before should be forgotten now because they have a different business model. They're different people now! Trust the new business model! Trust the new brand name! Trust the new front man! Trust them...

...and more often than not, we do!

Things usually go well for a time...at least for the first people in.

Sounds remarkably similar to a Ponzi scheme.

I'm not a fanboy, but I feel the need to defend these guys up to a certain point. Tom and Gus are not villains deliberately out to cheat people. They were using an unworkable business process and at this point are in an unsolvable situation. That doesn't help the customers that haven't received and probably never will receive the swords they ordered or get a refund. Trying legal avenues to get money back will not work, as there is probably no money to get back. I'm sad to hear that there are still people waiting for their "Pay Off the Machine Sale" swords. I thought that at least all those orders had been filled.