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Martin Wallgren




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PostPosted: Tue 30 Oct, 2012 2:37 pm    Post subject: Javelins with fleching! Must have!         Reply with quote

I have an uncontroleble urge to make one of these javelins with fleching that you see in several images. Could you guys point me to makers/retailers of good slender light spearheads to mount on a giant arrow.

Here are some examples in art.

[img]fouquet1458.jpg[/img]

Swordsman, Archer and Dad


Last edited by Martin Wallgren on Tue 30 Oct, 2012 2:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Martin Wallgren




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PostPosted: Tue 30 Oct, 2012 2:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote


Swordsman, Archer and Dad
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Martin Wallgren




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PostPosted: Tue 30 Oct, 2012 2:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote


Swordsman, Archer and Dad
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Luka Borscak




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PostPosted: Tue 30 Oct, 2012 2:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I know it's completely off topic, but does anybody now anything about the weird segmentata style armor from the last picture? Where and when is the picture from?
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Leo Todeschini




PostPosted: Tue 30 Oct, 2012 3:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hector cole in the UK

Tod

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Benjamin H. Abbott




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PostPosted: Tue 30 Oct, 2012 3:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Great pictures! This makes me want to reconsider the role of the javelin in fifteenth-century warfare. I know the Irish loved their darts, but I'd thought few other peoples fought much with javelins during this period. I'm especially curious about the image that looks like it's from the sixteenth century (at the bottom of the second post).
Read my historically inspired fantasy fiction in here. I walk along a winding path set by Ludovico Ariosto, William Morris, J. R. R. Tolkien, and Ursula Le Guin.

Out of doubt, out of dark to the day's rising
I came singing in the sun, sword unsheathing.
To hope's end I rode and to heart's breaking:
Now for wrath, now for ruin and a red nightfall!
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Martin Wallgren




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PostPosted: Tue 30 Oct, 2012 3:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Benjamin H. Abbott wrote:
Great pictures! This makes me want to reconsider the role of the javelin in fifteenth-century warfare. I know the Irish loved their darts, but I'd thought few other peoples fought much with javelins during this period. I'm especially curious about the image that looks like it's from the sixteenth century (at the bottom of the second post).


This one?


BELLINI, Giovanni
Resurrection of Christ
1475-79
Oil on panel transferred to canvas, 148 x 128 cm
Staatliche Museen, Berlin

Swordsman, Archer and Dad
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Nicholas A. Gaese




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PostPosted: Tue 30 Oct, 2012 4:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Cool idea, we dont see much of these large darts around enough. Mind if I contribute?

Drei kriegsleute, 1489 by Albrecht Durer.



Regards.



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Ralph Grinly




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PostPosted: Tue 30 Oct, 2012 9:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Most interesting. Do you know if anyone has made any such fletched javelins and tested them against identical, un-fletched ones ? It'd be interesting to know if fletched ones were more accurate, or had more range. I suspect the fletchings were intended to produce an increase in at least one ability ?
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William P




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PostPosted: Wed 31 Oct, 2012 1:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I would very much imagine that accuracy would be the reason for it. Fletching, as we all know, stabilises a missiles flightpath.

My understanding is that the aztecs may have used it as well.

However what I want to know is WHO is being depicted in each picture, One of them shows a soldier in the spanish army as part of a battle against the english. Some of the people in the art look distinctly oriental/ middle eastern,

However the one that is a close up of an armoured hand holding the dart, the second last image on the first post, That one I can confirm is Austrian.
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Peter Johnsson




PostPosted: Wed 31 Oct, 2012 1:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It is interesting that there is no evidence of a throwing thong or finger loop in any of these depictions. At least I am unable to find such. Why is that, one wonders?
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Randall Moffett




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PostPosted: Wed 31 Oct, 2012 5:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The only place I have found these being used in text in large scale is naval warfare. That said sometimes ships have 100s ot rhousands of them on board. I know some regional areas used them into the 15th, like Spain and Ireland but I could not say I have seen anything for England, France or Germany. If any one has I'd be interested. I was hoping to get some like this made but never did. Guess I'll wait till I get my own forge running.

RPM
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Wed 31 Oct, 2012 11:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Martin: You could simply fletch a few of these-- http://kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=AA227
Maybe A&A would sell you just the heads to save shipping expenses.
Of course, many (not all) of the medieval types appear to be of concave, barbed profile, but you could alter the A&A heads if you wanted to.
I got some swallowtail broadheads from Historic Enterprises in the hope of making some Irish javelins. The size of the head is okay, if on the small side, but the sockets are really too small for this application.
By the way, I've seen reference to leather and wood fletchings for these.

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Wed 31 Oct, 2012 11:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If only these were a bit bigger....
http://83.223.104.6/~ravencre/product_info.ph...cts_id=645

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Benjamin H. Abbott




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PostPosted: Wed 31 Oct, 2012 2:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Martin Wallgren wrote:
This one?


Yes, thanks. It's a bit earlier than I thought. Given the context, the javelin might represent the imagined Roman fighting style rather than a contemporary one.

Read my historically inspired fantasy fiction in here. I walk along a winding path set by Ludovico Ariosto, William Morris, J. R. R. Tolkien, and Ursula Le Guin.

Out of doubt, out of dark to the day's rising
I came singing in the sun, sword unsheathing.
To hope's end I rode and to heart's breaking:
Now for wrath, now for ruin and a red nightfall!
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Michael Curl




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PostPosted: Thu 01 Nov, 2012 7:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

In the resurrection of christ, check out the morningstar spear that the guy on the right has. Really cool.
E Pluribus Unum
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Philip Melhop




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PostPosted: Thu 01 Nov, 2012 8:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Leo Todeschini wrote:
Hector cole in the UK

Tod


Saw his stand at the International Living History Fair at Bruntingthorpe, he had any number of variations on the light spear/javelin theme, some in very nice pattern welded versions
Phil
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Thu 01 Nov, 2012 8:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

h/t to Tod!

Hector Cole javelin heads!

http://www.evado.co.uk/Hector%20Cole/index.html

I didn't see a price for these, but his arrowheads are very reasonable.



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-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Shane Allee




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PostPosted: Thu 01 Nov, 2012 9:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Early in the year I was doing some practice forging on javelin points and this is one that I turned into a Kern chucker. Messing around with trying to attach leather veins and they pinwheeled on me. I really didn't think there was much chance of them staying on or working, but it has seen a good bit of use. What I found was that this will turn a very ugly throw around and it will come down at a good angle almost everytime. Noticed this even more when using an amentum or atlatl. Of course this is in no way a dart made to be thrown with an atlatl, but fun to try none the less.

Shane



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Henrik Zoltan Toth




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PostPosted: Thu 01 Nov, 2012 9:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think these are recycled ballista-arrows.
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