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Robert MacPherson wrote:


It would be nice if we could tell which of those identically described lots is the one illustrated. I am pretty sure I have not seen this in the Met's accession cards, so I suspect that the one illustrated in the catalog did not go to them.

Mac
Mac, according to the book there were four "sleeveless" hauberks in the collection, the notes show that one went to the Met, have you seen any hauberk listed by the Met that fits this discription?
The Met has a number of sleeveless mail garments, but as far as I can tell, none of them has fabric panels.

Let my check my sources and report back.

Mac
well found! that's pretty amazing. I must admit the quality of the pic had me wondering if it was some kind of 19th cent pageant costume made of string. Wonder if it still has its fabric components.
So its got a button up front... but whats that button doing on the right shoulder/collar bone? Is there traces of similar arrangement on the opposite side?
Robert MacPherson wrote:
Thank you, Eric! That's the one alright.

Tom Billiter just posted a link to this page over on the AA. https://archive.org/stream/ilcdavaatal00amer/ilcdavaatal00amer#page/n450/mode/1up


[ Linked Image ]

It would be nice if we could tell which of those identically described lots is the one illustrated. I am pretty sure I have not seen this in the Met's accession cards, so I suspect that the one illustrated in the catalog did not go to them.

Mac


You're correct Mac. I just looked over the Met's European mail cards and this piece is not among them. It might have been part of the collection at one time, but has since been removed.
Another image of some Roman mail (Photo Christa S. Fuchs), useful for showing that the riveted and punched rings aren't always the same size.
http://www.actu-histoireantique.com/page/6

[ Linked Image ]
so behind this lovely section of eyelet coat...

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/8...2282ce.jpg

the pinterest comment reads

'European eyelet doublet with metal rings sewn inside the eyelets, 15th to 16th century, Wurzburg Castle, Germany. '

but other descriptions by here are off so won't take this as meaning much. Off to search for the castle...
supposedly 15th/16th copper alloy but 10mm across


 Attachment: 43.05 KB
[ Download ]
Mark Griffin wrote:
so behind this lovely section of eyelet coat...

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/8...2282ce.jpg

the pinterest comment reads

'European eyelet doublet with metal rings sewn inside the eyelets, 15th to 16th century, Wurzburg Castle, Germany. '

but other descriptions by here are off so won't take this as meaning much. Off to search for the castle...


This eyelet doublet definitely has metal rings in it but it isn't "mail" as we define it. There already is an earlier thread discussing this armour. It is an example of the rare "ring armour" construction.
Mark Griffin wrote:
so behind this lovely section of eyelet coat...

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/8...2282ce.jpg

the pinterest comment reads

'European eyelet doublet with metal rings sewn inside the eyelets, 15th to 16th century, Wurzburg Castle, Germany. '

but other descriptions by here are off so won't take this as meaning much. Off to search for the castle...


Mark, I think that discription is fairly accurate, here is another example.
[ Linked Image ]
Deleted double post.


Last edited by Eric S on Sat 24 Jan, 2015 1:47 am; edited 1 time in total
Hi, Thanks

Yes I'm very familiar with eyelet stuff (although not that specific one at Wartburg, it has others) , it was the mail behind it that was my aim with that pic. Just wondered if anyone had any images of it without the eyelet coat section in front of it.
Mark Griffin wrote:
Hi, Thanks

Yes I'm very familiar with eyelet stuff (although not that specific one at Wartburg, it has others) , it was the mail behind it that was my aim with that pic. Just wondered if anyone had any images of it without the eyelet coat section in front of it.


I can not remember seeing one.
[ Linked Image ]
Does anyone have information on this hauberk?
[ Linked Image ]
Likely the same:
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/503629170802128152/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/427912402066359382/

Quote:
European (German, Nuremberg) riveted mail hauberk, detail view, end of the 15th century, long sleeves of flattened riveted rings, collar and seams are bordered with two rows of brass rings, original buckle with leather remnants is riveted to the collar, brass armourer's ring at the neck stamped with the maker's inscription, "Hans M..." in front of two stylised towers. Length 67 cm. Weight 6380 g. Late Gothic mail shirt in unusually fine condition. F1.


The "unusually fine condition" descriptor suggests an auction catalog.
Mart Shearer wrote:
Likely the same:
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/503629170802128152/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/427912402066359382/

Quote:
European (German, Nuremberg) riveted mail hauberk, detail view, end of the 15th century, long sleeves of flattened riveted rings, collar and seams are bordered with two rows of brass rings, original buckle with leather remnants is riveted to the collar, brass armourer's ring at the neck stamped with the maker's inscription, "Hans M..." in front of two stylised towers. Length 67 cm. Weight 6380 g. Late Gothic mail shirt in unusually fine condition. F1.


The "unusually fine condition" descriptor suggests an auction catalog.


Thank Mart, I think your right, it appears to be this one, maybe from a different catelog.
How do you see if a mail coat was tinned? Simply being flashy silvery?
See if the maker had gone stark staring blind and mad I suppose. I can just about imagine gilding them, its kind of worth it...but tinning...

But its a good point to raise, wonder if there are any. Certainly my own originals, if they've been looked after, are nicely shiny anyway.
Márk György Kis wrote:
How do you see if a mail coat was tinned? Simply being flashy silvery?


Mark, there is plenty of evidence that some Indian mail was galvanized, also some Japanese riveted mail appears to have been tinned/galvanized as well, I am not sure about European mail.
Back on p.16 of this discussion Viktor Asenov provides evidence of a silver-gilt latten mail shirt. The Wallace Collection's sleeves A10-11 are also latten. Erik Schmid identified them as having been tinned. If you see a silver coating on brass wire, it's either tinning or silver, but you would have to likely do some testing to determine which.
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