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Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Joined: 17 Sep 2003

Posts: 1,456

PostPosted: Fri 19 Dec, 2014 7:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Harry Marinakis wrote:
Matthew Amt wrote:
There were several wooden scabbards found in the Danish oak coffins....


Thanks

I am looking for specifics. Unfortuantely none of the links above that you mention are primary data sources and so are not that useful to me. And the museum pics are not useful without the written documentation. ):


Ah, gotcha. PV Glob is a good place to start, then.

You might also dig around here:

http://natmus.dk/en/historisk-viden/danmark/o...-aar-1050/

http://www.guderoggrave.dk/ -- click "Genstande", then "Våben". Listed are (top to bottom) daggers, swords, axes, and other weapons. Choose a category and make a search using the pre-chosen parameters if you want to see the lot. Click "Sog" for thumbnails.

Looks like Jeroen still has a few links! http://1501bc.com/nf_links_eng.html

Matthew
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J. Nicolaysen




Location: Wyoming
Joined: 03 Feb 2014
Likes: 32 pages

Posts: 795

PostPosted: Fri 19 Dec, 2014 7:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well those bronze chapes from the first link are very impressive. I wish I knew what age sword they belonged to. Any guesses? It would be awesome to construct a scabbard with one of those as well as any other period furniture.


The gold foil bits on some of the Greek styles from Salimbeti might be somewhat spendy though.



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Last edited by J. Nicolaysen on Sat 20 Dec, 2014 6:55 am; edited 2 times in total
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Harry Marinakis




PostPosted: Sat 20 Dec, 2014 4:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gregory J. Liebau wrote:
And as an aside, there's no reason to doubt the veracity of the finds shown on Mr. Salimbeti's page.


Thank you very much for the information and links. Very helpful.

I do not doubt the data on Salimbeti's page, I just cannot put "Because Salimbeti said so" in a list of references.

Thank you again.
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Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Joined: 17 Sep 2003

Posts: 1,456

PostPosted: Sat 20 Dec, 2014 7:01 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Harry Marinakis wrote:
I do not doubt the data on Salimbeti's page, I just cannot put "Because Salimbeti said so" in a list of references.


Agreed! There's a ton of nice raw data there, but aside from dodgy interpretations and reconstructions, he also tramples pretty freely on copyright. Many of the nice drawings attributed to Kirk Spencer are actually compiled from other sources (as Kirk would be the first to tell you!). He doesn't cite sources for any of the photos, including at least one from *my* website showing my own swords! Very odd, for a published author.

Matthew
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Gregory J. Liebau




Location: Dinuba, CA
Joined: 27 Nov 2004

Posts: 669

PostPosted: Sat 20 Dec, 2014 12:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Harry,

Entirely understandable, that. Based on your initial questions I presumed you were simply looking for information on period scabbards to have recreations made, not to present references in some sort of orderly manner. As it stands, Salimbeti's website is the source for that material until original/alternative publications come to light.

Matt,

I have always presumed Andrea is negligent in that regard. His website, though relatively new, is done up in an archaic format and it's hard to say who actually uploads the material onto it. The fact that he's attempted to attribute so many of his photos and drawings is rather marvelous, methinks, considering it's essentially a hobby site for a man who's profession is in engineering... No doubt much of it came about after some of the lovely conversations over at the BAC, which I wouldn't mind skipping out on here. Wink

-Gregory
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Harry Marinakis




PostPosted: Sun 21 Dec, 2014 4:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gregory J. Liebau wrote:
Entirely understandable, that. Based on your initial questions I presumed you were simply looking for information on period scabbards to have recreations made, not to present references in some sort of orderly manner. As it stands, Salimbeti's website is the source for that material until original/alternative publications come to light.


Sorry Gregoory.
I am trying to do both - evidence-based scabbard recreations based on hard scientific data and archeological research.

I started out with a project to make my own scabbard for a Medieval sword, but when I started doing some basic research on scabbard design I discovered that most of the scabbards that people make are fantasy creations based primarily on other people's fantasy creations.
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Matthew Bunker




Location: Somerset UK
Joined: 02 Apr 2009

Posts: 483

PostPosted: Sun 21 Dec, 2014 11:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Harry Marinakis wrote:
when I started doing some basic research on scabbard design I discovered that most of the scabbards that people make are fantasy creations based primarily on other people's fantasy creations.


Not mine.
Mine are all based on archaeological evidence and solid research, down to the dyes that I use.

"If a Greek can do it, two Englishman certainly can !"
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Harry Marinakis




PostPosted: Sun 21 Dec, 2014 12:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Matthew Bunker wrote:
Not mine.
Mine are all based on archaeological evidence and solid research, down to the dyes that I use.


I know, and I want to do the same.
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Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Joined: 17 Sep 2003

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PostPosted: Sun 21 Dec, 2014 12:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Matthew Bunker wrote:
Mine are all based on archaeological evidence and solid research, down to the dyes that I use.


I'm envious!! There's no information anywhere near that detailed for Classical Greek scabbards. I'm not even sure we have true-color depictions.

Matthew
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Matthew Bunker




Location: Somerset UK
Joined: 02 Apr 2009

Posts: 483

PostPosted: Sun 21 Dec, 2014 2:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Matthew Amt wrote:
Matthew Bunker wrote:
Mine are all based on archaeological evidence and solid research, down to the dyes that I use.


I'm envious!! There's no information anywhere near that detailed for Classical Greek scabbards. I'm not even sure we have true-color depictions.

Matthew


Well, if you will grub about in the real 'Dark Ages'...

Wink

"If a Greek can do it, two Englishman certainly can !"
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Niels Just Rasmussen




Location: Nykøbing Falster, Denmark
Joined: 03 Sep 2014

Spotlight topics: 15
Posts: 828

PostPosted: Wed 17 Jun, 2015 8:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Apparently the National Museum have 25 examples of Bronze Age scabbards according to this site [search "genstande", then “våben“, then "sværdskede" and just press "SØG" thereafter].
1 of gold, 4 of leather, the rest of wood.
Source: http://www.guderoggrave.dk/

But other museums in Denmark can have examples as well:
Find of a bronze age sword (not shown) and leather scabbard from Gørklindt mark at Holsted, north of Ribe should be counted as well.
Søndersø Museum: inventory nr. 1096X0062


Source: https://www.kulturarv.dk/mussam/VisGenstand.action?genstandId=2038723

Picture is quite small, but the scabbard should be 65.5 cm long and 3.3 cm wide.
It was put together from fragments uncovered from the gravesite (also the sword was fragmented; into 8 pieces, so likely deliberate). Unknown if it had an original chape.
Sword was 73,7 cm with a pronounced midline ridge, but lacking the top of the grip.
Dating says younger bronze age [1100-500 BC], but these narrow swords seems rather Older Bronze Age?!


Last edited by Niels Just Rasmussen on Wed 17 Jun, 2015 9:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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Niels Just Rasmussen




Location: Nykøbing Falster, Denmark
Joined: 03 Sep 2014

Spotlight topics: 15
Posts: 828

PostPosted: Wed 17 Jun, 2015 9:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

J. Nicolaysen wrote:
Wow...that's actually pretty stunning. To have lasted so long with such a nice carving...Thanks for that. Do you know if the scabbard was lined with anything like wool or felt?


I have actually found an example from Denmark of a fragmentary 3-layered scabbard found on the sword in situ.


Source: https://www.kulturarv.dk/mussam/VisGenstand.action?genstandId=3886683

From Horsens Museum.
Inventory: 00046X00001
Found at the mound Smedhøj in Horsens 1974.
Dating: 1300-1100 BC.

The scabbard has outermost a thin layer of skin without hair, next wood and innermost a thin layer of skin with hair. The hairs are turned inwards towards the blade.
No additional info on the sword
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