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Jeremy V. Krause
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Posted: Fri 08 Aug, 2014 6:23 am Post subject: |
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As I continue on my search for the right example or at least the best information to develop a reproduction drawing on several examples I think that for now I have a leading contender.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seax_of_Beagnoth
It looks like the Seax of Baegnoth has most of what I am looking for (except the blade is too long for my tastes- and will certainly cost more with inlay!) Anyway, with the Seax of Baegnoth I get.
-A seax showing a groove- which I like.
-A narrow bladed example with a very different character than my Honey Lane inspired seax.
-It has no pattern-welding- so this detail at least wouldn't even bring up the price more.
-It is dated to the 10 th. c. and at least this far, that looks like the best I am going to get in a non-broad bladed example.
-It shows a multi metal inlay.
-We have all of the dimension- a big plus.
The drawback will be that even if I can- and that's a big IF- have the runic side executed faithfully I don't know what is on the other side. Does anyone know? If it were plain that would be excellent. At this point I don't know if I will have to do both sides. I would prefer not to, due to cost but if history has left us nothing but seaxes of this type inlaid on both sides I'll have to bite the bullet. I would be comfortable- accuracy-wise- in having a similar or characteristic inlay but not a copy of the inlay on the original.
Lastly, I would love to retain the shape of the Baegnoth but have a shorter version at around 20 inches- but I am not sure if this would be a good idea as, from what I have seen, we have no examples of this character. I would consider this the 'Perfect" seax shape and length for this project.
Do others more knowledgable that I believe that a 20 in. "version" of the Baegnoth- would be too much historical speculation.
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Owen Bush
Industry Professional
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Posted: Fri 08 Aug, 2014 11:45 am Post subject: |
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I have documented the seax of beagnoth with Tod on a measuring session arranged by Ryan Renfro (thanks for that again Ryan).
I'll have a look at my documentation , I think it was on a "do not publish the photos" signed off documentation...so I will have a hunt for anything relevant it may be a while as I am off demonstrating next week at a blacksmiths festival.
The good news is it isn't patternwelded but the bad news is that up close the inlay is pretty trixy almost all twisted copper and silver and extensive down both sides and even a little on the spine.........
It is quite a blade.....
forging soul into steel .
www.owenbush.co.uk the home of bushfire forge school of smithing .
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Jeremy V. Krause
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Posted: Fri 08 Aug, 2014 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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Owen Bush wrote: | I have documented the seax of beagnoth with Tod on a measuring session arranged by Ryan Renfro (thanks for that again Ryan).
I'll have a look at my documentation , I think it was on a "do not publish the photos" signed off documentation...so I will have a hunt for anything relevant it may be a while as I am off demonstrating next week at a blacksmiths festival.
The good news is it isn't patternwelded but the bad news is that up close the inlay is pretty trixy almost all twisted copper and silver and extensive down both sides and even a little on the spine.........
It is quite a blade..... |
That is good news that you have documented this blade.
Maybe Tod could execute simpler inlay. I would be comfortable with that- it still like it a bit showy. BTW- I love spine inlay!
Do you believe that a seax with proportion like the Baegnoth, but shorter, would have existed?
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Carl W.
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Posted: Fri 08 Aug, 2014 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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This assumes you mean 20" blade not overall...
The wikipedia article says it has 55.1cm blade which is 21.7". As you want a custom hand forged piece using special steel, fwiw I'd suggest considering asking the maker if a target of say 20.8" +-0.8" is reasonable? (Or what is reasonable?) If they can do tighter than that to the length you want while getting the shape & the rest right great, but they may appreciate the tolerance.
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G Ezell
Industry Professional
Location: North Alabama Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 235
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Posted: Sat 09 Aug, 2014 3:18 am Post subject: |
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Wikipedia says the overall length is 72.1cm, or 28.385 inches, with a 55.1cm (21.69 inch) blade.... however the British Museum says 81.1cm or 31.9 inches. I'm not sure who is right, but it is interesting that the replicas tend towards wikipedia's measurements... we have a mystery.
" I have found that it is very often the case that if you state some absolute rule of history, there will be an example, however extremely unusual, to break it."
Gabriel Lebec
https://www.facebook.com/relicforge
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Jeremy V. Krause
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Posted: Sat 09 Aug, 2014 6:17 am Post subject: |
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G Ezell wrote: | Wikipedia says the overall length is 72.1cm, or 28.385 inches, with a 55.1cm (21.69 inch) blade.... however the British Museum says 81.1cm or 31.9 inches. I'm not sure who is right, but it is interesting that the replicas tend towards wikipedia's measurements... we have a mystery. |
Are you saying that the British Museum lists the entire length at 31 inches or just the blade?
I was thinking that the blade on the Baegnoth was 28 inches. If it were closer to 20 that would be great- at least for the project.
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G Ezell
Industry Professional
Location: North Alabama Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 235
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Posted: Tue 12 Aug, 2014 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | Are you saying that the British Museum lists the entire length at 31 inches or just the blade? |
They do not specify, so I am assuming that is overall length. Wikipedia gives much more detailed measurements, including width and thickness. Normally I don't put much trust in wikipedia, but this time I suspect they are right. If Owen's forging the blade, he knows for sure, as he's had the enviable pleasure of measuring it himself....
" I have found that it is very often the case that if you state some absolute rule of history, there will be an example, however extremely unusual, to break it."
Gabriel Lebec
https://www.facebook.com/relicforge
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Jeremy V. Krause
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Posted: Wed 13 Aug, 2014 4:12 am Post subject: |
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So this project is set to be basically a copy of the Baegnoth.
We are planning to execute the complete inlay of the original at this point. One thing that is interesting about this inlay is that there is a seemingly random combination of silver/copper inlay or brass/copper inlay. Tod and Owen believe that this disparity is not due to later repairs but is contemporary to it's construction.
Part of me wants to have the inlay executed in a "perfected" way- with consistent material inlay throughout, reflecting a consistent design, but the other side just wants to have it made "as is". I lean towards having the inlay executed as it appears in an unaltered form even though it does seem a bit odd. I have to wonder why the craftsman would inlay the blade in this way- just having random interruptions of material.
Mainly, I want Tod to be excited about the process so I may leave it up to him.
One thing is nice though- this should be pretty close to a replica of the original. It is going to be a process- that's for sure.
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Leo Todeschini
Industry Professional
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Jeremy V. Krause
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Posted: Fri 15 Aug, 2014 4:31 am Post subject: |
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Leo Todeschini wrote: | Thanks for the commission Jeremy; this is a job I am really looking forward to and having examined the Beagnoth seax earlier this year I can attest that it is a really interesting piece. The grip and scabbard will of course be conjecture.
I will try and keep you posted with a 'making of' thread.
Tod |
Great!
I was hoping that you would be able to do this but I didn't want to add any more work to this, already, labor intensive inlay.
How do you not get tendonitis?
Please share the process shots here is you are inclined as well.
Thanks!
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G Ezell
Industry Professional
Location: North Alabama Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 235
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Posted: Fri 15 Aug, 2014 11:55 am Post subject: |
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I found an interesting document on British langsaxes that might interest some here... http://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/myads/cop...6e2e706466
There is even one with iron fittings....
Attachment: 100.07 KB
Image courtesy Archaeology Data Service and Vera I. Evison [ Download ]
" I have found that it is very often the case that if you state some absolute rule of history, there will be an example, however extremely unusual, to break it."
Gabriel Lebec
https://www.facebook.com/relicforge
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