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Pamela Muir




Location: Arlington, VA
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PostPosted: Tue 22 Mar, 2005 5:25 am    Post subject: advice on sparring/drilling sword         Reply with quote

I hope this topic hasn't been too often repeated, but I am looking for advice on a new sword to be used for sparring and drilling, something to be used in the Liechtenauer tradition. I currently have the Albion Squire line 15th century bastard sword and absolutely love it. It has held up well in the light steel on steel sparring I have had a chance to participate in. I am now looking to purchase a longer sword for use in sparring. (On looks alone, I love swords that are long and lean.) In an ideal world I would like something with an overall length around 46 -48 inches. It also needs to stand up to the Arms and Armor Fechtbuch sword which a couple of my sparring partners use. I figure it will be something in the $300-$600 range. I have thought about the Albion Squire line 13th century great sword, but I think (hope!) I have talked my husband into purchasing that one, which means it will already be part of the family and I can look at something else.

How do swords that were designed to be sharp such as the Albion Next Gen or Arms and Armor swords handle as blunts? How do they hold up in sparring against other steel?

Here's your chance to give me all the advice you want. I listen to advice well. I may not use it, but I listen to it. Happy

Thank you.

Pamela Muir

Founder/Lead Instructor
Academy of Chivalric Martial Arts


"I need a hero. I'm holding out for a hero 'til the end of the night. He's gotta be strong, And he's gotta be fast, And he's gotta be fresh from the fight." ~Steinman/Pitchford
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Martin Wallgren




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PostPosted: Tue 22 Mar, 2005 5:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Very good topic!

according to Peter Johnsson blunts tend to get a different balance than a sharp sword and just blunting a sharp will not be the best choice. But I´ve got to leave the specifics to Peter to explain.

He is currently in Wisconsin with the good folks of Albion but hopefully they will lend him a computer with internet access so he can answer Big Grin

Swordsman, Archer and Dad
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R. Laine




Location: Peru
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PostPosted: Tue 22 Mar, 2005 6:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Pamela,

If you can wait for a while, Angus Trim will be releasing a series of purpose-built blunts and flexible simulators. I don't know when the rest is going to be available to the public, but one of the blunt longsword models can be bought from Christian Fletcher. From what I've read, those who have had the chance to handle the new blunts have been quite extatic, including several highly respected HEMA scholars.

I think some of them are going to be available via Academia Della Spada at some point. Mr. Trim can propably give a bit more specific information on the matter if he happens to read this, though.

Rabbe


Last edited by R. Laine on Tue 22 Mar, 2005 6:07 am; edited 2 times in total
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Aaron Schnatterly




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PostPosted: Tue 22 Mar, 2005 6:05 am    Post subject: Re: advice on sparring/drilling sword         Reply with quote

Pamela Muir wrote:
... I figure it will be something in the $300-$600 range. I have thought about the Albion Squire line 13th century great sword, but I think (hope!) I have talked my husband into purchasing that one, which means it will already be part of the family and I can look at something else.


Gee… twist MY arm Big Grin ! Honestly, the Squire Great Sword and the A&A Fechtbuch came to mind immediately, but you have already mentioned (and obviously evaluated) these already. So… on to other things…

Pamela Muir wrote:
How do swords that were designed to be sharp such as the Albion Next Gen or Arms and Armor swords handle as blunts? How do they hold up in sparring against other steel?


The Next Gen line should be as or more durable as the Squire line. The Squire line swords are just not as nicely finished as the Next Gens – grip, blade refinement – but are, by no means, cheesy. (I can’t wait to get my mitts on my 15th C Bastard – your brief review above validates my purchase nicely, so thanks!) Also, although Next Gens are usually sharp, you can request they be left dull. (text in some of the sword descriptions on their individual pages reads “Swords will be sold sharp unless requested by the customer.”) A quick call to Mike will be able to sort this out and tell you how the “non-sharp” edge would compare to a standard Squire line edge. My guess is that you would have an insanely sweet sparring weapon. However, Martin does have a good point – the handling may be slightly altered by the different blade geometry. Unless things have changed from when I harassed Mike a week or so ago about the new longswords (Fiore, Ringneck, Talhoffer, Agincourt), the projected release will be around July. These would be within your projected price range, though towards the high end. I’ve got some serious thoughts of ordering 2 Talhoffers – one sharp for the pristine collection, one not for forms work and light sparring.

Also, there has been discussion about Albion releasing a sparring line, though timeframe and what will be included in the line is still muddy – at least to me. Possibly one of the Albion folks can provide some clarity. This will fill a serious need for a lot of us, and I look forward to this as well.

Well, that’s my $0.02, for what it’s worth. Whatever you decide to do, Pamela, please let us know as well as how it turns out! I’m probably just a couple of months behind you on the same endeavor… so I’ll certainly listen to your advice!

-Aaron Schnatterly
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(He is stronger who conquers himself.)
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Joe Fults




Location: Midwest
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PostPosted: Tue 22 Mar, 2005 8:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If you have to have it now, are willing to spend $400-$600 and you partners are already using them, I would HIGHLY recommend going with the A&A Fetchbuch since it is a known (to you) entity.
"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
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Roger Hooper




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PostPosted: Tue 22 Mar, 2005 8:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The ATrim SB1450 over at www.christianfletcher.com might be exactly what you're looking for.

Though CF calls it a XVa, Gus thinks of it as an XVIIIb



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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Tue 22 Mar, 2005 1:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hey Pamela,
My Sovereign's a blunt. You've seen it, it's got nice wide and safe edges, and it handles like a sword should. Albion generally has a small charge if you request on of their sharps to be made as a blunt, but not much. If you decide to get an Albion Next Gen as a blunt, I'd recommend making sure that you tell them it's for WMA use. I don't know if it makes a difference in how they make it or not, but it couldn't hurt to let them know.
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Angus Trim




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PostPosted: Tue 22 Mar, 2005 1:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bill Grandy wrote:
Hey Pamela,
My Sovereign's a blunt. You've seen it, it's got nice wide and safe edges, and it handles like a sword should. Albion generally has a small charge if you request on of their sharps to be made as a blunt, but not much. If you decide to get an Albion Next Gen as a blunt, I'd recommend making sure that you tell them it's for WMA use. I don't know if it makes a difference in how they make it or not, but it couldn't hurt to let them know.


One of the swords I'm sending you is one of the longsword blunts. Not the SB1450 that has already been posted, but a XVIa. Its already been tap danced with a bit, during the 4W event, so its up for you folks to play with as much as you'd like.......

This one specs out at 35.5, 46, and 2lbs 8........... 8 inch handle

Can be made with longer blade, 9 inch handle.......

swords are fun
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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Tue 22 Mar, 2005 2:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Angus Trim wrote:


One of the swords I'm sending you is one of the longsword blunts. Not the SB1450 that has already been posted, but a XVIa. Its already been tap danced with a bit, during the 4W event, so its up for you folks to play with as much as you'd like.......

This one specs out at 35.5, 46, and 2lbs 8........... 8 inch handle

Can be made with longer blade, 9 inch handle.......


Sweet, Gus!

Hear that Pamela? Just be patient. Wink
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Pamela Muir




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PostPosted: Wed 23 Mar, 2005 4:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you, gentlemen, for all the advice and helpful hints. You've given me a lot to think about and it looks like what I need to do is be patient and wait for some of these new toys to be available. In the meantime, "Honey, don't you think you really need that Albion Squire line great sword? I think a man with a sword is very sexy..." (Much batting of the eyelashes.) Wink


Bill Grandy wrote:
Angus Trim wrote:


One of the swords I'm sending you is one of the longsword blunts. Not the SB1450 that has already been posted, but a XVIa. Its already been tap danced with a bit, during the 4W event, so its up for you folks to play with as much as you'd like.......

This one specs out at 35.5, 46, and 2lbs 8........... 8 inch handle

Can be made with longer blade, 9 inch handle.......


Sweet, Gus!

Hear that Pamela? Just be patient. Wink


Does this mean I'll get to play with it too?

Pamela Muir

Founder/Lead Instructor
Academy of Chivalric Martial Arts


"I need a hero. I'm holding out for a hero 'til the end of the night. He's gotta be strong, And he's gotta be fast, And he's gotta be fresh from the fight." ~Steinman/Pitchford
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Angus Trim




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PostPosted: Wed 23 Mar, 2005 10:16 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Pamela Muir wrote:
Thank you, gentlemen, for all the advice and helpful hints. You've given me a lot to think about and it looks like what I need to do is be patient and wait for some of these new toys to be available. In the meantime, "Honey, don't you think you really need that Albion Squire line great sword? I think a man with a sword is very sexy..." (Much batting of the eyelashes.) Wink

Does this mean I'll get to play with it too?


Yep...........*g*

swords are fun
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Mark Muir





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PostPosted: Wed 23 Mar, 2005 7:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Pamela Muir wrote:
Thank you, gentlemen, for all the advice and helpful hints. You've given me a lot to think about and it looks like what I need to do is be patient and wait for some of these new toys to be available. In the meantime, "Honey, don't you think you really need that Albion Squire line great sword? I think a man with a sword is very sexy..." (Much batting of the eyelashes.) Wink


Uh Oh, looks like I know where my mad money is going to. Happy
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Aaron Schnatterly




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PostPosted: Thu 24 Mar, 2005 5:13 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mark Muir wrote:
Uh Oh, looks like I know where my mad money is going to. Happy


Mark-

I think I speak for a lot of us here when I say... you're a lucky man! Welcome to the forum!

Howy just formally introduced the Maestro line - Albion's dedicated sparring line. I think possibly the Meyer and/or the Liechtenauer may be what your bride is looking for.

Albion's Maestro sparring line forum thread

-Aaron Schnatterly
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Pamela Muir




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PostPosted: Fri 25 Mar, 2005 4:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Actually, I am the lucky one. I think a lot of you know that it helps to have a spouse/significant other that is indulgent of this hobby. Mark decided not to just indulge me, but join me as well.

And Aaron, you are right, that Maestro line looks exactly like what I had in mind! Now I have to resign myself to the wait....

Pamela Muir

Founder/Lead Instructor
Academy of Chivalric Martial Arts


"I need a hero. I'm holding out for a hero 'til the end of the night. He's gotta be strong, And he's gotta be fast, And he's gotta be fresh from the fight." ~Steinman/Pitchford
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Aaron Schnatterly




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PostPosted: Fri 25 Mar, 2005 5:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Pamela Muir wrote:
Actually, I am the lucky one. I think a lot of you know that it helps to have a spouse/significant other that is indulgent of this hobby. Mark decided not to just indulge me, but join me as well.

And Aaron, you are right, that Maestro line looks exactly like what I had in mind! Now I have to resign myself to the wait....


Pamela-

I think that was the impression most of us got, that your interest was your own. As you said, it is nice to have support. Many of us are lucky even to find tolerance. I think it is wonderful that you both have something else to be passionate about together.

I, too, am looking forward to the line. What is impressive to me is the commitment to providing a piece specifically engineered to serve this purpose. Peter, Howy and the rest of the crew spent a lot of time carefully considering what needs to be done to make these pieces function as they should, feel as they should, and be safe. They have freely stated that they won't look quite the same - which, of course, they shouldn't. With the different blade geometry and distribution as would be necessary to maintain the thicker edge (2mm? I think...) then something will have to change somehow to balance and handle properly.

So the new question is this... SQL Great Sword, or Maestro Great Sword?

-Aaron Schnatterly
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(He is stronger who conquers himself.)
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Sam Barris




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PostPosted: Sat 26 Mar, 2005 1:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm curious, since I'm such a fan of the Japanese bokken, if anyone has any opinions about wasters. Good? Bad? I'm aware that they won't handle like the real thing, but are they a good enough approximation for training/sparring purposes?
Pax,
Sam Barris

"Any nation that draws too great a distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards, and its fighting done by fools." —Thucydides
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Gary Grzybek




Location: Stillwater N.J.
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PostPosted: Sat 26 Mar, 2005 2:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sam Barris wrote:
I'm curious, since I'm such a fan of the Japanese bokken, if anyone has any opinions about wasters. Good? Bad? I'm aware that they won't handle like the real thing, but are they a good enough approximation for training/sparring purposes?



Wasters are fine and have certain advantages. They are very cheap compared to steel and are less threatening in a public environment. In ARMA we consider them to be an importaint tool in our training but one we should never totally rely on for accuracy. Steel is certainly more realistic in the way it feels and will provide better results when applying certain techniques. Today at training I demonstrated how lively steel is compared to wasters by setting aside various attacks with relative ease. When we used wood the results were, well "dead" feeling Big Grin

I'd say get yourself a good waster but don't forget how importaint it is to include steel in your training. Also, it may seem more practical to by some cheap blunt but if it's poorly balanced and heavy it can distort technique and encourage bad habits.

Gary Grzybek
ARMA Northern N.J.
www.armastudy.org
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