Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Does anyone know where the original is? Reply to topic
This is a standard topic Go to page 1, 2  Next 
Author Message
Russ Ellis
Industry Professional




Joined: 20 Aug 2003
Reading list: 42 books

Posts: 2,608

PostPosted: Sun 17 Apr, 2005 8:06 pm    Post subject: Does anyone know where the original is?         Reply with quote

http://www.deltin.net/5149.jpg
Does anyone know where the original of this sword currently resides? I've already asked Mr. Del Tin about it and he himself does not recall. He believes that it might be in the Royal Armoury but was not sure... anyone?

TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
View user's profile Send private message
Alina Boyden





Joined: 19 Apr 2004

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 383

PostPosted: Sun 17 Apr, 2005 8:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Does anyone know where the original one of these is?         Reply with quote

Russ Ellis wrote:
http://www.deltin.net/5149.jpg
Does anyone know where the original of this sword currently resides? I've already asked Mr. Del Tin about it and he himself does not recall. He believes that it might be in the Royal Armoury but was not sure... anyone?


I don't know anything about it, but could you tell me what it is? IE, typology or date or something?
View user's profile
Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin


myArmoury Admin

PostPosted: Sun 17 Apr, 2005 8:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Including some information to help people is necessary. This is what Del Tin's site says: "14th CENTURY SWORD. Overall length cm 112, blade cm 91. Weight 1640 gr."
.:. Visit my Collection Gallery :: View my Reading List :: View my Wish List :: See Pages I Like :: Find me on Facebook .:.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Alexi Goranov
myArmoury Alumni


myArmoury Alumni

Location: San Francisco, CA
Joined: 24 Jan 2004
Reading list: 72 books

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 1,191

PostPosted: Sun 17 Apr, 2005 8:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Does anyone know where the original one of these is?         Reply with quote

Russ Ellis wrote:
http://www.deltin.net/5149.jpg
Does anyone know where the original of this sword currently resides? I've already asked Mr. Del Tin about it and he himself does not recall. He believes that it might be in the Royal Armoury but was not sure... anyone?


There is a similar sword in the Royal Armouries Tower of London (IX-1084). It has similar pommel (although the boss is smaller and does not have a recess) and similar cross. This sword is 107.9cm in length (overall). It has a small fuller in the upper 1/3 of the blade (like the Del Tin). the single biggest difference is the presence of the large side fullers on the Del Tin. The sword is dated to the fourteenth century.

Picture is included.

Alexi



 Attachment: 50.57 KB
[ Download ]
View user's profile Send private message
Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

PostPosted: Sun 17 Apr, 2005 9:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Does anyone know where the original one of these is?         Reply with quote

Alexi Goranov wrote:
the single biggest difference is the presence of the large side fullers on the Del Tin. The sword is dated to the fourteenth century.


If you look closely at the Tower sword, it looks to have 2 shallow fullers (or severe hollow-grinding) between the small fuller and edges.

Happy

ChadA

http://chadarnow.com/
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin


myArmoury Admin

PostPosted: Sun 17 Apr, 2005 9:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Alexi, that's a damn good catch. I think that the hilt is extremely close on that one. As Chad points out, I do see the signs of fullers or hollow-grinding as well.
.:. Visit my Collection Gallery :: View my Reading List :: View my Wish List :: See Pages I Like :: Find me on Facebook .:.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Patrick Kelly




Location: Wichita, Kansas
Joined: 17 Aug 2003
Reading list: 42 books

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 5,739

PostPosted: Sun 17 Apr, 2005 9:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I don't know if those are fullers or if it's simply a strong secondary bevel at the edge. Even if it's the latter Fulvio may have interpreted it as a fuller. Either way I'd say this is a strong candidate Russ.
"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Brian M




Location: Austin, TX
Joined: 01 Oct 2003

Posts: 500

PostPosted: Sun 17 Apr, 2005 11:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Definitely an interesting blade on the Del Tin, don't know if it's a correct interpretation of the original, but it is interesting. A fullered mid-rib flanked by shallow fullers.
Hmm, I swear I've seen a picture of that sword or a very similar one on a book cover recently...
I just checked it out and I was right. I noticed it at the local Half-Price Books and I just looked it up on Amazon. Title is "King Arthur: Dark Age Warrior and Mythic Hero" by John Matthews. On close inspection it's not the same sword, but it is very similar. The blade has some pretty strong secondary bevels and a narrow central fuller. Same pommel and guard too. Check it out for comparison.
Anyone know which sword this is on the cover? I don't have ROTMS.

Regards,
Brian M
View user's profile Send private message
Russ Ellis
Industry Professional




Joined: 20 Aug 2003
Reading list: 42 books

Posts: 2,608

PostPosted: Mon 18 Apr, 2005 6:54 am    Post subject: Re: Does anyone know where the original one of these is?         Reply with quote

Alexi Goranov wrote:
Russ Ellis wrote:
http://www.deltin.net/5149.jpg
Does anyone know where the original of this sword currently resides? I've already asked Mr. Del Tin about it and he himself does not recall. He believes that it might be in the Royal Armoury but was not sure... anyone?


There is a similar sword in the Royal Armouries Tower of London (IX-1084). It has similar pommel (although the boss is smaller and does not have a recess) and similar cross. This sword is 107.9cm in length (overall). It has a small fuller in the upper 1/3 of the blade (like the Del Tin). the single biggest difference is the presence of the large side fullers on the Del Tin. The sword is dated to the fourteenth century.

Picture is included.

Alexi


Alexi may I just say... NICELY done! I think you've got it. On a purely visual level it's darned close and combine that with Mr. Del Tin's clues about where he thinks he may have found the original...

I certainly appreciate it sir!

TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
View user's profile Send private message
Russ Ellis
Industry Professional




Joined: 20 Aug 2003
Reading list: 42 books

Posts: 2,608

PostPosted: Mon 18 Apr, 2005 6:56 am    Post subject: Re: Does anyone know where the original one of these is?         Reply with quote

Chad Arnow wrote:
Alexi Goranov wrote:
the single biggest difference is the presence of the large side fullers on the Del Tin. The sword is dated to the fourteenth century.


If you look closely at the Tower sword, it looks to have 2 shallow fullers (or severe hollow-grinding) between the small fuller and edges.


Agreed. The picture is a bit rough but there definitely looks to be an edge bevel between the fuller/hollow grind and the edge of the sword.

TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
View user's profile Send private message
Russ Ellis
Industry Professional




Joined: 20 Aug 2003
Reading list: 42 books

Posts: 2,608

PostPosted: Mon 18 Apr, 2005 6:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Patrick Kelly wrote:
I don't know if those are fullers or if it's simply a strong secondary bevel at the edge. Even if it's the latter Fulvio may have interpreted it as a fuller. Either way I'd say this is a strong candidate Russ.


Agreed!

TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
View user's profile Send private message
Russ Ellis
Industry Professional




Joined: 20 Aug 2003
Reading list: 42 books

Posts: 2,608

PostPosted: Mon 18 Apr, 2005 7:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Brian M wrote:
Definitely an interesting blade on the Del Tin, don't know if it's a correct interpretation of the original, but it is interesting. A fullered mid-rib flanked by shallow fullers.
Hmm, I swear I've seen a picture of that sword or a very similar one on a book cover recently...
I just checked it out and I was right. I noticed it at the local Half-Price Books and I just looked it up on Amazon. Title is "King Arthur: Dark Age Warrior and Mythic Hero" by John Matthews. On close inspection it's not the same sword, but it is very similar. The blade has some pretty strong secondary bevels and a narrow central fuller. Same pommel and guard too. Check it out for comparison.
Anyone know which sword this is on the cover? I don't have ROTMS.

Regards,
Brian M


Pommel and guard look pretty darned close, the blade cross section is extremely different. Of course with Mr. Del Tin that still doesn't mean that the same sword couldn't have been used for the model. I've noticed with Mr. Del Tin that he has no problem interpreting originals when enough hard data isn't available, in effect relying on his own knowledge and experience as to what makes a good sword when he has to.

TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
View user's profile Send private message
Allen W





Joined: 02 Mar 2004

Posts: 285

PostPosted: Mon 18 Apr, 2005 8:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm pretty sure that's XVIa.1 from RoMS.
View user's profile Send private message
Russ Ellis
Industry Professional




Joined: 20 Aug 2003
Reading list: 42 books

Posts: 2,608

PostPosted: Mon 18 Apr, 2005 10:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Allen W wrote:
I'm pretty sure that's XVIa.1 from RoMS.


I'll check that out when I get home...

TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
View user's profile Send private message
Patrick Kelly




Location: Wichita, Kansas
Joined: 17 Aug 2003
Reading list: 42 books

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 5,739

PostPosted: Mon 18 Apr, 2005 11:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Russ Ellis wrote:
Allen W wrote:
I'm pretty sure that's XVIa.1 from RoMS.


I'll check that out when I get home...


I don't think that's it. I have the DT sword here now and it's far closer to the example that Alexi posted. The blade's cross-section and the guard style are much closer to that one.

"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Russ Ellis
Industry Professional




Joined: 20 Aug 2003
Reading list: 42 books

Posts: 2,608

PostPosted: Mon 18 Apr, 2005 8:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well having looked at the picture of XVIa.1 I'd have to say that the cross is completely different then the replica although based on the pictures we have I couldn't say for sure that the Del Tin sword isn't an amalgamation of the two. The XVIa.1 does appear to have a not completely disimilar cross section although the central fuller is rather a lot longer then on the Del Tin sword. The pommels are pretty close as well between the two swords.

Thanks so much for your help gentlemen...

TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
View user's profile Send private message
Joe Maccarrone




Location: Burien, WA USA
Joined: 19 Sep 2003

Posts: 190

PostPosted: Wed 20 Apr, 2005 12:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Interesting thread... I woulda sworn I saw a triple fuller in the pic Alexi posted, but -- Royal Armouries IX.1084 is XVIa.5 in RoMS. Concerning the fuller, Oakeshott writes:
"The fuller here is very narrow, but there is a distinct rib in the lower half of the blade."

No mention of a triple fuller. Now that I read that, I can see the rib, and either a secondary bevel, as Patrick speculated, or a hollow grind. I would think that Oakeshott would have mentioned the latter, so maybe it is a prominent secondary bevel on a blade intended primarily for thrusting. Either way, an appealing sword, which Oakeshott dates c.1300-25.
View user's profile Send private message
Edward Hitchens




Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Likes: 1 page
Reading list: 9 books

Posts: 819

PostPosted: Wed 20 Apr, 2005 6:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I don't know, fellas. I've got my copy of Records right here in front of me (type XVIa.5), and Oakeshott has the blade at about 84 centimeters; according to Nathan, DT's website has their replica's blade at 91, right? Oakeshott also says there's a "...distinct rib in the lower half of the blade." Looks to me like the original has a pommel nut as well.

-Ted

"The whole art of government consists in the art of being honest." Thomas Jefferson
View user's profile Send private message
Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Likes: 50 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 5
Posts: 8,310

PostPosted: Wed 20 Apr, 2005 7:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well I hope there is some justification for it historically because I really like those multiple fullers.

At the very least it would be a great fantasy piece.

If documented an Albion or A & A version would be very tempting: Very nice design Cool

I might even be tempted to design my own Fantasy version of it if I ever went the custom route.

Hmmmmm..... something combining a type XIV with a type XV reinforced point using this pattern of fullers maybe.

(Edited to add graphic: What it might look like as mentioned above. )



 Attachment: 75.4 KB
[ Download ]

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
View user's profile Send private message
Björn Hellqvist
myArmoury Alumni


myArmoury Alumni

Location: Sweden
Joined: 19 Aug 2003

Posts: 723

PostPosted: Mon 25 Apr, 2005 1:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Why not ask Fulvio? He usually backs up his designs with some kind of documentaion.
My sword site
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Does anyone know where the original is?
Page 1 of 2 Reply to topic
Go to page 1, 2  Next All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2024 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum