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Alina Boyden





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PostPosted: Mon 18 Apr, 2005 4:15 pm    Post subject: a little jineta anyone?         Reply with quote

Well, since I'm so enamoured of al-Andalus I figured I'd throw in some pics from the twilight of an era. These are known as espada jineta, they're the swords from Granada in the 14th-16th centuries.
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Gordon Frye




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PostPosted: Mon 18 Apr, 2005 7:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Very Cool! Thank you Alina, I've always felt that the period of the Reconquista has been far too overlooked by the more Northerly Western Historians, considering the huge impact it had on Western History. Without that experience, the Spaniards would not have had that Crusading Spirit to carry them across the Atlantic, and then across the Western Hemisphere to found, and conquer, and empire here. Or the Spanish Empire in Europe during the 16th Century, for that matter!

The Hispano-morisco fashions for swords are an interesting blend of East and West (though in Iberia it would be more North and South, I suppose!), and it's unfortunate that so little research (that I am aware of at least) has been done on them. Thanks for posting these pictures.

Cheers,

Gordon

"After God, we owe our victory to our Horses"
Gonsalo Jimenez de Quesada
http://www.renaissancesoldier.com/
http://historypundit.blogspot.com/
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Alina Boyden





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PostPosted: Mon 18 Apr, 2005 7:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gordon Frye wrote:
Very Cool! Thank you Alina, I've always felt that the period of the Reconquista has been far too overlooked by the more Northerly Western Historians, considering the huge impact it had on Western History. Without that experience, the Spaniards would not have had that Crusading Spirit to carry them across the Atlantic, and then across the Western Hemisphere to found, and conquer, and empire here. Or the Spanish Empire in Europe during the 16th Century, for that matter!

The Hispano-morisco fashions for swords are an interesting blend of East and West (though in Iberia it would be more North and South, I suppose!), and it's unfortunate that so little research (that I am aware of at least) has been done on them. Thanks for posting these pictures.

Cheers,

Gordon


Sure! I just spent a few minutes looking through every collection sword and every review - none of them is for a non-western sword type. I'd love to put together some research for the site:

Renaissance Armies: The Ottomans
Early Islamic sword design

Something like that anyways. That'd be fun. These swords I didn't like at first but they've really grown on me. Now I want one. I also liked learning about riding "a la jineta." I had no idea what that meant and documentation was sketchy. Interesting nonetheless.
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Gordon Frye




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PostPosted: Mon 18 Apr, 2005 8:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Alina;

From what I know, riding "a la jineta" involves short stirrups and lots of action! The classic Hispano-Morisco Light Cavalry was very much on the Arabian/North African model, focusing on feints, attacks, retreats and more of the same. The primary weapon of the jinete was the javelin (rather than the bow), of which the "genetor" carried a number in a quiver at his side... the tactic involved rushing close to the opposing force in a wave, hurling their javelins at their enemies, then turning and high-tailing it away. (Interesting parallel to Charles V's OTHER light Cavalry which was developed in Germany in the 1540's, the Pistoliers with their "Caracole" tactic, which in many ways is the same basic idea with different weapons). The jinete's got their backsides handed to them when they ran into French Heavy Cavalry in Italy in 1494 though, so there were never large numbers used on the Continent for other than scouting and screening (which is in fact what Light Cavalry is really for.)

The jinetore was usually armed in a maille shirt with a steel cap of some sort, mounted on a small, active equine: Barb's, Arabians, Andalusians and, interestingly enough, Mules. The Castillians and Moors of the day also prefered Mares (Bernal Diaz del Castillo goes into some detail about his favorite War Mare in his "True History of the Conquest of New Spain", concerning his adventures under Cortez). Not sure about the Catalans and Portuguese on that score though... they may have had more "Western" tastes, and prefered Stallions.

There have been LONG discussions as to just what constituted a "silla de jinete", or jinete saddle, but my general assumption would be that it would be strongly of the Middle-Easter variety, rather resembling the Arab/Hungarian saddle as much as anything else. Modern Spanish saddles may well still have many of the attributes, but since I have never seen a good rendition of a silla de jinete in either person or photo, it's hard to say.

Anyway, this no doubt gets WAY deeper into that subject thay anyone wants to hear, so enough! Bring on more cool swords... do you have pictures of any variants showing the transition from espadas de jineta to the more Western styles of sword?

Cheers!

Gordon

"After God, we owe our victory to our Horses"
Gonsalo Jimenez de Quesada
http://www.renaissancesoldier.com/
http://historypundit.blogspot.com/
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Alina Boyden





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PostPosted: Mon 18 Apr, 2005 8:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gordon Frye wrote:
Alina;

From what I know, riding "a la jineta" involves short stirrups and lots of action! The classic Hispano-Morisco Light Cavalry was very much on the Arabian/North African model, focusing on feints, attacks, retreats and more of the same. The primary weapon of the jinete was the javelin (rather than the bow), of which the "genetor" carried a number in a quiver at his side... the tactic involved rushing close to the opposing force in a wave, hurling their javelins at their enemies, then turning and high-tailing it away. (Interesting parallel to Charles V's OTHER light Cavalry which was developed in Germany in the 1540's, the Pistoliers with their "Caracole" tactic, which in many ways is the same basic idea with different weapons). The jinete's got their backsides handed to them when they ran into French Heavy Cavalry in Italy in 1494 though, so there were never large numbers used on the Continent for other than scouting and screening (which is in fact what Light Cavalry is really for.)

The jinetore was usually armed in a maille shirt with a steel cap of some sort, mounted on a small, active equine: Barb's, Arabians, Andalusians and, interestingly enough, Mules. The Castillians and Moors of the day also prefered Mares (Bernal Diaz del Castillo goes into some detail about his favorite War Mare in his "True History of the Conquest of New Spain", concerning his adventures under Cortez). Not sure about the Catalans and Portuguese on that score though... they may have had more "Western" tastes, and prefered Stallions.

There have been LONG discussions as to just what constituted a "silla de jinete", or jinete saddle, but my general assumption would be that it would be strongly of the Middle-Easter variety, rather resembling the Arab/Hungarian saddle as much as anything else. Modern Spanish saddles may well still have many of the attributes, but since I have never seen a good rendition of a silla de jinete in either person or photo, it's hard to say.

Anyway, this no doubt gets WAY deeper into that subject thay anyone wants to hear, so enough! Bring on more cool swords... do you have pictures of any variants showing the transition from espadas de jineta to the more Western styles of sword?

Cheers!

Gordon


Actually, I dropped that little line on "a la jineta" specifically in response to you for a reason. Mission accomplished. More swords? Well, I could look. The truth is, the jineta style of moorish sword didn't evolve much further, because the Spanish completely expelled the muslims in 1492 or so. (Though not all people of Islamic faith until later).

However, I think I have something that might interest you. I think these are later versions made by the Spanish. I haven't learned Spanish yet so I'm not sure, but it's the best I got.
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Gordon Frye




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PostPosted: Mon 18 Apr, 2005 8:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Alina;

Hmmm, somehow I figured that one out! Big Grin

Since the Christian Jinetore's were armed so similarly to their Muslim counterparts, I am curious to know if they actually DID use different sword styles though, with the Muslims using the classic Jinete-style sword illustrated, while the Christians used the standard cross-hilted models current further North. It would be most interesting to find this out.

(I have to relate a fascinating illustration of the multi-ethnic make-up of the Spanish Empire though: in 1560 there was a rebellion of the remaining Moorisco's [who were no doubt nominally Christians], which was fairly severely put down. One of the Captains involved, in command of a company of Spanish Arquebusiers, was one Garcilaso de la Vega, "El Inca", the grand-nephew and heir to Athahualpa, and thus a nobleman by Spanish law and custom. Pretty strange stuff going on in the Spanish domains by our Anglo-centric lights.)

That's a very interesting sword that you posted, BTW. It looks almost, well, Filipino (since it too was a part of the Spanish Empire, administered from Mexico City, I guess such influence on the Philipines isn't to be considered unusual though!)

Thanks again!

Cheers,

Gordon

"After God, we owe our victory to our Horses"
Gonsalo Jimenez de Quesada
http://www.renaissancesoldier.com/
http://historypundit.blogspot.com/
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Alina Boyden





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PostPosted: Mon 18 Apr, 2005 8:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gordon Frye wrote:
Alina;

Hmmm, somehow I figured that one out! Big Grin

Since the Christian Jinetore's were armed so similarly to their Muslim counterparts, I am curious to know if they actually DID use different sword styles though, with the Muslims using the classic Jinete-style sword illustrated, while the Christians used the standard cross-hilted models current further North. It would be most interesting to find this out.

(I have to relate a fascinating illustration of the multi-ethnic make-up of the Spanish Empire though: in 1560 there was a rebellion of the remaining Moorisco's [who were no doubt nominally Christians], which was fairly severely put down. One of the Captains involved, in command of a company of Spanish Arquebusiers, was one Garcilaso de la Vega, "El Inca", the grand-nephew and heir to Athahualpa, and thus a nobleman by Spanish law and custom. Pretty strange stuff going on in the Spanish domains by our Anglo-centric lights.)

That's a very interesting sword that you posted, BTW. It looks almost, well, Filipino (since it too was a part of the Spanish Empire, administered from Mexico City, I guess such influence on the Philipines isn't to be considered unusual though!)

Thanks again!

Cheers,

Gordon


Well the jinetes weren't just a late movement. These swords are specifically late 14th century and later. So for most of the period, the muslims in Spain used different swords. I have a few of those somewhere, but they're very similar to their european counterparts.
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Gordon Frye




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PostPosted: Mon 18 Apr, 2005 9:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Alina Boyden wrote:

Well the jinetes weren't just a late movement. These swords are specifically late 14th century and later. So for most of the period, the muslims in Spain used different swords. I have a few of those somewhere, but they're very similar to their european counterparts.


Oh, absolutely. What is very cool is to note the similarity between a Berber horseman of say 1100 CE and a Spanish "soldado de cuerra" of 1820! The same basic shield was used, the "twin oval" style adarga. The North African variety was made from the hide of the Atlas Antelope while the New World version was bull hide, but other than some minor stylistic changes, they are to all intents and purposes identical. Of course the late-model Spanish soldado's were lancers of the more classical variety rather than javelineers, but the adarga was perfectly suited to their needs. Hey, if it ain't broke, etc. Big Grin

Cheers,

Gordon

"After God, we owe our victory to our Horses"
Gonsalo Jimenez de Quesada
http://www.renaissancesoldier.com/
http://historypundit.blogspot.com/
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Alina Boyden





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PostPosted: Mon 18 Apr, 2005 9:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A line drawing of an 11th century Andalusian hilt and a picture of the original. Note the broad blade and hint of a fuller. This is sometimes called a shared mediterranean style because it has elements from both Christian and Muslim cultures. This is what a Muslim faris (knight) might have carried in the first crusade.

Note to Albion folks: Doesn't this just scream "Make me!"? Wink
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Alina Boyden





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PostPosted: Mon 18 Apr, 2005 9:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gordon Frye wrote:
Alina Boyden wrote:

Well the jinetes weren't just a late movement. These swords are specifically late 14th century and later. So for most of the period, the muslims in Spain used different swords. I have a few of those somewhere, but they're very similar to their european counterparts.


Oh, absolutely. What is very cool is to note the similarity between a Berber horseman of say 1100 CE and a Spanish "soldado de cuerra" of 1820! The same basic shield was used, the "twin oval" style adarga. The North African variety was made from the hide of the Atlas Antelope while the New World version was bull hide, but other than some minor stylistic changes, they are to all intents and purposes identical. Of course the late-model Spanish soldado's were lancers of the more classical variety rather than javelineers, but the adarga was perfectly suited to their needs. Hey, if it ain't broke, etc. Big Grin

Cheers,

Gordon


True. Though, some of the sources I have seen argue for the use of the light lance and not merely the javelin while riding "a la jineta." Of course, this style lends itself better to throwing and less well for jousting than a western style. Cool nonetheless.
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Gordon Frye




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PostPosted: Mon 18 Apr, 2005 9:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Alina;

How nifty! And yes, either Albion or A&A really NEEDS to make one of these available to us for extensive, long-term testing... Big Grin

I'm sure that there were certain individuals who practiced using the couched lance in the manner of the Western Chivalry as well as using the javelin, no question. It may well have been practiced quite freely on occasion. But of course the general practice was the javelin. The biggest problem would be the design of the saddles in use, though. the Arming Saddles (sillas de armas) used by the Heavy Horse were deep, with frontal armour and a high back to keep you steady under the shock of impact (and well secured to the horse for the same reason). The lancer was to push himself back into the saddle with his stirrups, worn long for this reason, to help absorb the blow both to the target, and from the target. The sillas de jinete were for rising in the saddle to give the user power from is legs as well as his arms and torso for hurling a javelin. The other weapons could of course be used from the either saddle, but not with the same effectiveness.

I hope I'm not pontificating too much here, but rather helping to spread information, as is my intention.

Cheers!

Gordon

"After God, we owe our victory to our Horses"
Gonsalo Jimenez de Quesada
http://www.renaissancesoldier.com/
http://historypundit.blogspot.com/
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Alina Boyden





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PostPosted: Mon 18 Apr, 2005 9:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gordon Frye wrote:
Alina;

How nifty! And yes, either Albion or A&A really NEEDS to make one of these available to us for extensive, long-term testing... Big Grin

I'm sure that there were certain individuals who practiced using the couched lance in the manner of the Western Chivalry as well as using the javelin, no question. It may well have been practiced quite freely on occasion. But of course the general practice was the javelin. The biggest problem would be the design of the saddles in use, though. the Arming Saddles (sillas de armas) used by the Heavy Horse were deep, with frontal armour and a high back to keep you steady under the shock of impact (and well secured to the horse for the same reason). The lancer was to push himself back into the saddle with his stirrups, worn long for this reason, to help absorb the blow both to the target, and from the target. The sillas de jinete were for rising in the saddle to give the user power from is legs as well as his arms and torso for hurling a javelin. The other weapons could of course be used from the either saddle, but not with the same effectiveness.

I hope I'm not pontificating too much here, but rather helping to spread information, as is my intention.

Cheers!

Gordon


No, I think it's great. Can you tell me if you have any info on jinetes using bows or crossbows? It seems to me that the lateral mobility and ability to stand in the saddle that this style afforded would be good for mounted archery as well.
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Gordon Frye




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PostPosted: Mon 18 Apr, 2005 9:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Alina Boyden wrote:

No, I think it's great. Can you tell me if you have any info on jinetes using bows or crossbows? It seems to me that the lateral mobility and ability to stand in the saddle that this style afforded would be good for mounted archery as well.


Alina;

Thanks.

I have yet to find any such information, but it does seem as though the Spaniards took to using "mounted arquebusiers" pretty early on in the 16th Century. They were more a species of Dragoon however, and in general not firing from the saddle but dismounting to fight (though this is in some dispute, records not being terribly specific about this). But I have yet to see anything on Spanish mounted Crossbowmen. This is weird, since the Spaniards had HORDES of dismounted Shot of both the Crossbow and Arquebus variety, and the Italians and Swiss, as well as the French, had large numbers of their own Light Cavalry armed with crossbows, so it's an odd thing. Either the Spaniards and others didn't think that they were worth mentioning, OR they were subsumed by the greater numbers of javelin-throwers and simply referred to as such by the chroniclers, OR Spanish conservatism simply prevailed, and the older model held firm until proven ineffective against Western Heavy Cavalry in Italy. It's odd though considering the numbers of mounted archers used by English and French armies, which had fought in Castille and Portugal in the dynastic wars/100-Years-War spill-over of the 14th Century.

Cheers,

Gordon

"After God, we owe our victory to our Horses"
Gonsalo Jimenez de Quesada
http://www.renaissancesoldier.com/
http://historypundit.blogspot.com/
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Alina Boyden





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PostPosted: Mon 18 Apr, 2005 9:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gordon Frye wrote:
Alina Boyden wrote:

No, I think it's great. Can you tell me if you have any info on jinetes using bows or crossbows? It seems to me that the lateral mobility and ability to stand in the saddle that this style afforded would be good for mounted archery as well.


Alina;

Thanks.

I have yet to find any such information, but it does seem as though the Spaniards took to using "mounted arquebusiers" pretty early on in the 16th Century. They were more a species of Dragoon however, and in general not firing from the saddle but dismounting to fight (though this is in some dispute, records not being terribly specific about this). But I have yet to see anything on Spanish mounted Crossbowmen. This is weird, since the Spaniards had HORDES of dismounted Shot of both the Crossbow and Arquebus variety, and the Italians and Swiss, as well as the French, had large numbers of their own Light Cavalry armed with crossbows, so it's an odd thing. Either the Spaniards and others didn't think that they were worth mentioning, OR they were subsumed by the greater numbers of javelin-throwers and simply referred to as such by the chroniclers, OR Spanish conservatism simply prevailed, and the older model held firm until proven ineffective against Western Heavy Cavalry in Italy. It's odd though considering the numbers of mounted archers used by English and French armies, which had fought in Castille and Portugal in the dynastic wars/100-Years-War spill-over of the 14th Century.

Cheers,

Gordon


Well I have a source for Spanish mounted crossbowmen from the 14th century I think. It said they used a (goat's foot???) spanning device to span the crossbow. I was just wondering if you had any other sources on it. How effective are these javelins? I mean, I've never really thought that throwing a spear from horseback was the sensible thing to do with it. But then again, if the horse is going 20+MPH and you throw from that, I guess it could get some velocity. Do you have any thoughts on the efficacy of the javelins?

You mention that the jinetes were beaten by heavy cavalry. Why do you suppose then that Granada chose to use them almost exclusively against the Spanish who had very heavy European style cavalry in their ranks?
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PostPosted: Mon 18 Apr, 2005 9:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Oh, I'd best add an addendum to the above. On the Coronado Expedition of 1540, there were listed a number of both Arquebusiers and Crossbowmen who claimed as part of their possessions horses and saddles for their use. Even men listed as "Infantry" listed horses for themselves, while some Cavalrymen listed arquebuses or crossbows. This is pretty late though, so may or may not be of any validity in whether or not their grandfathers and great-grandfathers used horses and projectile weapons in concert with each other.

Cheers,

Gordon

"After God, we owe our victory to our Horses"
Gonsalo Jimenez de Quesada
http://www.renaissancesoldier.com/
http://historypundit.blogspot.com/
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Jason Daub




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PostPosted: Mon 18 Apr, 2005 9:55 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Alina, I am not aware of any mention of the Spanish use of crossbows or bows from horseback, but I recall mention that the Granadine jinetes used crossbows in the border campaigns with the Castilians in 1406-07?
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Alina Boyden





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PostPosted: Mon 18 Apr, 2005 9:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jason Daub wrote:
Alina, I am not aware of any mention of the Spanish use of crossbows or bows from horseback, but I recall mention that the Granadine jinetes used crossbows in the border campaigns with the Castilians in 1406-07?


I'll have to check that out. My source on spanish crossbowmen is admittedly suspect - it comes from a person on a different forum. However, I'll ask my local reconquista expert in her office tomorrow or wednesday to see if she can point me towards some juicy period sources on the issue. Of course, I really need to learn spanish. French and latin will only get you so far reading spanish.
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PostPosted: Mon 18 Apr, 2005 10:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Alina Boyden wrote:

Well I have a source for Spanish mounted crossbowmen from the 14th century I think. It said they used a (goat's foot???) spanning device to span the crossbow. I was just wondering if you had any other sources on it. How effective are these javelins? I mean, I've never really thought that throwing a spear from horseback was the sensible thing to do with it. But then again, if the horse is going 20+MPH and you throw from that, I guess it could get some velocity. Do you have any thoughts on the efficacy of the javelins?

You mention that the jinetes were beaten by heavy cavalry. Why do you suppose then that Granada chose to use them almost exclusively against the Spanish who had very heavy European style cavalry in their ranks?


Alina;

Ah, excellent. My own research into Spanish history is pretty sketchy prior to the late-15th Century, so I've overlooked a LOT of information. Glad to know that there are good references to Spanish light horse using crossbows.

The biggest advantage of the javelin is mass. Although it doesn't have anywhere near the velocity of an arrow, it has a LOT more mass to push the steel head into the target. Against maille, even if it doesn't penetrate, I suspect that the impact against even padded flesh would be fairly substantial. Against an unarmoured equine, devistating.

The big reason that the King of Grenada used his jinetors against the Spanish Horse was that the Spanish Horse was amost entirely of the same type. As I recall from my research of some years back (and this is off the top of my head) Isabella and Ferdinand were only able to muster something like 10% of their mounted arm in the Western Heavy Feudal Cavalry style. The Spanish Heavy Horse was of excellent quality, but, like the English, of very limited quantity. It isn't apparent as to just why this was, but there it is. Long on theories and speculation, but short on facts.

Cheers,

Gordon

"After God, we owe our victory to our Horses"
Gonsalo Jimenez de Quesada
http://www.renaissancesoldier.com/
http://historypundit.blogspot.com/
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Alina Boyden





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PostPosted: Mon 18 Apr, 2005 10:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gordon Frye wrote:
Alina Boyden wrote:

Well I have a source for Spanish mounted crossbowmen from the 14th century I think. It said they used a (goat's foot???) spanning device to span the crossbow. I was just wondering if you had any other sources on it. How effective are these javelins? I mean, I've never really thought that throwing a spear from horseback was the sensible thing to do with it. But then again, if the horse is going 20+MPH and you throw from that, I guess it could get some velocity. Do you have any thoughts on the efficacy of the javelins?

You mention that the jinetes were beaten by heavy cavalry. Why do you suppose then that Granada chose to use them almost exclusively against the Spanish who had very heavy European style cavalry in their ranks?


Alina;

Ah, excellent. My own research into Spanish history is pretty sketchy prior to the late-15th Century, so I've overlooked a LOT of information. Glad to know that there are good references to Spanish light horse using crossbows.

The biggest advantage of the javelin is mass. Although it doesn't have anywhere near the velocity of an arrow, it has a LOT more mass to push the steel head into the target. Against maille, even if it doesn't penetrate, I suspect that the impact against even padded flesh would be fairly substantial. Against an unarmoured equine, devistating.

The big reason that the King of Grenada used his jinetors against the Spanish Horse was that the Spanish Horse was amost entirely of the same type. As I recall from my research of some years back (and this is off the top of my head) Isabella and Ferdinand were only able to muster something like 10% of their mounted arm in the Western Heavy Feudal Cavalry style. The Spanish Heavy Horse was of excellent quality, but, like the English, of very limited quantity. It isn't apparent as to just why this was, but there it is. Long on theories and speculation, but short on facts.

Cheers,

Gordon


Interesting. I smell a trip to the library coming up for me. I have a theory that military orders (Teutonic Knights, Hospitallers, what have you) served as the perfect antidote to nomads because of their permanent presence in border regions and flexibility. I'd love to see what kind of interactions there were between the light horse of the muslims in the region and the Knights of Santiago, the Knights of Calatrava, etc. That could be a really interesting study in two equine styles colliding with one another.

Edit: Pun not intended
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PostPosted: Mon 18 Apr, 2005 10:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Alina Boyden wrote:

Interesting. I smell a trip to the library coming up for me. I have a theory that military orders (Teutonic Knights, Hospitallers, what have you) served as the perfect antidote to nomads because of their permanent presence in border regions and flexibility. I'd love to see what kind of interactions there were between the light horse of the muslims in the region and the Knights of Santiago, the Knights of Calatrava, etc. That could be a really interesting study in two equine styles colliding with one another.


Absolutely! I would love to know more about the Knights of Santiago and Calatrava! I'm sure it's all available, but I've been to lazy/distracted to dig it out. My own Spanish suffers from years of disuse, so it's pretty sloppy right now too, unfortunately! But I'd love to see what you can dig up! BTW, UCSB OUGHT to be a GREAT place to find such tidbits of information!

The information I have on the jinetors being trounced by Western Heavy Cavalry is from the campaigns in Italy when Charles VIII of France took it upon himself to push the Angevin claim to the throne of Naples and Sicily in 1494. Naturaly Ferdinand of Aragon, cousin to Ferdinand of Naples and Sicily, took exception to this, and managed to secure the throne for himself in the process. But the French army which marched from top to bottom and back again was heavy on up-to-date Artillery and Heavy Horse (with Swiss pikes for Infantry). When El Gran Capitan, Gonzalo de Cordoba met them in the field with his few thousand jinetors and few hundred Knights, the French Gendarmerie, organized into their "compaignes d'ordonnance", ran right over them. After that, de Cordoba refrained from trying to restrain French Heavy Cavalry with his own Cavalry, and chose to use ditches and hedges instead. He kept his Jinetors for screening, and keeping the French from properly scouting out the battlefields. Far more effective!

Cheers,

Gordon

"After God, we owe our victory to our Horses"
Gonsalo Jimenez de Quesada
http://www.renaissancesoldier.com/
http://historypundit.blogspot.com/
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