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Alina Boyden





Joined: 19 Apr 2004

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Posts: 383

PostPosted: Tue 19 Apr, 2005 7:06 pm    Post subject: Islamic Helmets         Reply with quote

Time for me to waste more bandwith. These pictures are either from the book by David Alexander "The Arts of War" or from another book called ummm...stupid UCSB library catalog. It was something like "Treasures of the Islamic World" or equally generic. Whatever, here are some helmets.

For your viewing pleasure I have:

a 7-8th century steel helmet with nasal that has been gilt at some time.

a 16th century Mamluk or Ottoman helm that is very nifty

a 14th century Anatolian helm

a 15th century Iranian face mask (I think I forgot to record the century)

a 15th-16th century Iranian helm

a 15th century sword hilt with a helmet from the same period

a 16th-17th century Iranian helmet

Okay, that's it for now I think. I didn't realize I got 7 helm pics...


Last edited by Alina Boyden on Fri 06 May, 2005 5:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Allan Senefelder
Industry Professional



Location: Upstate NY
Joined: 18 Oct 2003

Posts: 1,563

PostPosted: Tue 19 Apr, 2005 7:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The second one downs a beaut! The (not a prayer i'm gonna spell this right) szeichak helm is where the zischagge comes from. Eastern Europe was a melting pot of eastern and western fashion and military technology and the zischagge was the European version of this helm and its name a European corruption of the Turkish one. Great pics Alina.
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Nate C.




Location: Palo Alto, CA
Joined: 13 Jun 2004

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Posts: 301

PostPosted: Tue 19 Apr, 2005 8:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hey Alina,

Interesting stuff, I generally prefer things with less decoration but those are interesting none the less. Thanks for posting the pics. Also, you may know this already, but you can add captions to the pictures themselves. When you are attaching the files, you can put your caption/info in the "File Comment" space and it will display below the picture in your post.

Cheers,

Nate C.

Sapere Aude
"If you are going to kill the man, at least give him a decent salute." - A. Blansitt

If they ever come up with a Swashbuckling School, I think one of the courses should be Laughing, then Jumping Off Something. --Jack Handy
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Alina Boyden





Joined: 19 Apr 2004

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 383

PostPosted: Tue 19 Apr, 2005 8:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nate C. wrote:
Hey Alina,

Interesting stuff, I generally prefer things with less decoration but those are interesting none the less. Thanks for posting the pics. Also, you may know this already, but you can add captions to the pictures themselves. When you are attaching the files, you can put your caption/info in the "File Comment" space and it will display below the picture in your post.

Cheers,


That'll teach me to ignore forum features. Thanks Nate.
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin


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PostPosted: Tue 19 Apr, 2005 9:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Alina Boyden wrote:
That'll teach me to ignore forum features. Thanks Nate.

Speaking of features, you can also go back and edit your post now and add the descriptions should you wish to do so Happy

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Bill Grandy
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Location: Northern VA,USA
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PostPosted: Tue 19 Apr, 2005 9:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Islamic Helmets         Reply with quote

Alina Boyden wrote:
Time for me to waste more bandwith.


Waste? No way! I've been really enjoying these Mid-Eastern arms and armor pics you've been posting. In fact, I always thought that if I ever commissioned a fantasy suit of armor, it would be predominantly Persian influenced, despite my love of European High Gothic and 15th c. Milanese armor.
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Alina Boyden





Joined: 19 Apr 2004

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 383

PostPosted: Tue 19 Apr, 2005 10:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Robinson wrote:
Alina Boyden wrote:
That'll teach me to ignore forum features. Thanks Nate.

Speaking of features, you can also go back and edit your post now and add the descriptions should you wish to do so Happy


Correct my mistakes? Hahaha... Razz
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Gordon Frye




Location: Kingston, Washington
Joined: 20 Apr 2004
Reading list: 15 books

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PostPosted: Wed 20 Apr, 2005 3:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Allan Senefelder wrote:
The second one downs a beaut! The (not a prayer i'm gonna spell this right) szeichak helm is where the zischagge comes from. Eastern Europe was a melting pot of eastern and western fashion and military technology and the zischagge was the European version of this helm and its name a European corruption of the Turkish one. Great pics Alina.


Alina, that helmet is great! Nifty info from Allan too. This is a VERY cool helmet, so Eastern yet with such a "Western" flair! (Or is it that the zischagge were so Western with such an "Eastern" flair? Hard to say!) But it does illustrate VERY well the melting pot that was Eastern Europe of the late Middle Ages/Renaissance. Great helmet!

Cheers,

Gordon

"After God, we owe our victory to our Horses"
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Daniel Parry




Location: UK
Joined: 08 Apr 2005
Reading list: 39 books

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Posts: 334

PostPosted: Wed 20 Apr, 2005 10:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Can someone explain more about the mask (or mask-type visor) portrayed in Alina's photos. Was this a common Islamic helmet frontpiece (presumably attached to the brow of the helmet looking at the holes).?

The reason I ask is that I recently saw very similar masks in the Leeds Royal Armouries and the Wallace Collection in the 14th ~ 15th century European helm cases. They immediately struck me as being very un-European in practical style and also in decoration (One was decorated like the face of a lion). Seeing Alina's photos I wondered whether these might have been adapted from Islamic styles of armour seen by people who had travelled/lived/fought there, or even be ' tourist souvenirs' ( I intend no flippant treatment of any cultural or military interaction by that phrase) from the near east. When I saw them I was most reminded of Japanese armour masks. I would be interested if anyone has some further info on this style of mask (origin, usage, dates etc).

Daniel
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Steve Grisetti




Location: Orlando metro area, Florida, USA
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Likes: 9 pages
Reading list: 28 books

Posts: 1,812

PostPosted: Wed 20 Apr, 2005 4:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gordon Frye wrote:
Allan Senefelder wrote:
The second one downs a beaut! The (not a prayer i'm gonna spell this right) szeichak helm is where the zischagge comes from. Eastern Europe was a melting pot of eastern and western fashion and military technology and the zischagge was the European version of this helm and its name a European corruption of the Turkish one. Great pics Alina.


Alina, that helmet is great! Nifty info from Allan too. This is a VERY cool helmet, so Eastern yet with such a "Western" flair! (Or is it that the zischagge were so Western with such an "Eastern" flair? Hard to say!) But it does illustrate VERY well the melting pot that was Eastern Europe of the late Middle Ages/Renaissance. Great helmet!

Cheers,

Gordon

Let me chime in, too. That second helm is special. I also like the 6th image - helm with the ?aventail? (don't know if that term applies to eastern helms). Yes, it is somewhat ornate, but the work is beautiful.
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Allan Senefelder
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Location: Upstate NY
Joined: 18 Oct 2003

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PostPosted: Wed 20 Apr, 2005 6:27 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Steve #6 six is called a khula khud and this type of helm was used from India and Turkey to Egypt and the Sudan. There were small regional differences in things like bowel depth, top spike or peaked top, and decorative motifs. The gold work on this helm is called khaftari and refers to the process of crosshatching either with a file or light chisel work the surface to be covered then hammering gold or silver foil into it and the burnishing it which results in the gold or silver remaining in the low areas creating you design. This mode of decoration was very popular for weapons in these areas as well. The khula khud Alina posted looks to be a particularly fine example.
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Alina Boyden





Joined: 19 Apr 2004

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 383

PostPosted: Wed 20 Apr, 2005 7:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Allan Senefelder wrote:
Steve #6 six is called a khula khud and this type of helm was used from India and Turkey to Egypt and the Sudan. There were small regional differences in things like bowel depth, top spike or peaked top, and decorative motifs. The gold work on this helm is called khaftari and refers to the process of crosshatching either with a file or light chisel work the surface to be covered then hammering gold or silver foil into it and the burnishing it which results in the gold or silver remaining in the low areas creating you design. This mode of decoration was very popular for weapons in these areas as well. The khula khud Alina posted looks to be a particularly fine example.


I had a better Persian khula khud but it was from a black and white photo and I just made a photocopy which wasn't worth scanning. The helmet itself was the face of a lion and it had two spikes that looked like ears.
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Hisham Gaballa





Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 508

PostPosted: Fri 10 Jun, 2005 4:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Alina, the links don't seem to be working. Sad
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G. Scott H.




Location: Arizona, USA
Joined: 22 Feb 2005

Posts: 410

PostPosted: Fri 10 Jun, 2005 4:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm glad Hisham posted on this thread, thereby bumping it up near the top and bringing it to my attention. It just made me realize that Alina hasn't posted in a long time (over a month it seems). Though Islamic weapons aren't my primary interest, I always found her posts infomative and interesting. I wonder what has become of her. Question Eek! Question
(Sorry, Nathan, I know it's off-topic, but in this instance I thought this the best place to put this particular question. Happy )
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Hisham Gaballa





Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Reading list: 7 books

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PostPosted: Sat 11 Jun, 2005 1:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I am interested in Islamic armour, and I'm gutted that I missed this post. Oh well...

Sorry I have no idea where she is.
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G. Scott H.




Location: Arizona, USA
Joined: 22 Feb 2005

Posts: 410

PostPosted: Sat 11 Jun, 2005 4:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hisham Gaballa wrote:
I am interested in Islamic armour, and I'm gutted that I missed this post. Oh well...

Sorry I have no idea where she is.

Hisham, Alina is probably the most knowledgable person arounf here when it comes to Islamic weapons and armour. As I said, she hasn't posted here in quite some time. I have no idea what has happened to her, but I certainly hope she's alright and will rejoin us in the near future. She's posted pictures of everything from camel armour to various Middle Eastern swords and chainmail. Do some searches on the forums using "Islamic" as a keyword, or go to Alina's profile, which will show you all the posts sh's made. Very interesting stuff. Happy

P.S. Welcome to myArmoury. Happy
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Felix Wang




Location: Fresno, CA
Joined: 23 Aug 2003
Reading list: 17 books

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Posts: 394

PostPosted: Sat 11 Jun, 2005 4:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A thought about Alina's whereabouts: she is (graduated?) student at the University of California at Santa Barbara. Since it is now June, the regular academic year is probably over or finishing. So she is likely in transition - to a summer job, summer school, the "real world", or whatever. Wink I trust she is doing fine, and hope to hear from her soon - she is very well-versed in Islamic warfare and weapons.
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Steve Grisetti




Location: Orlando metro area, Florida, USA
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
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Reading list: 28 books

Posts: 1,812

PostPosted: Sat 11 Jun, 2005 6:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I guess Alina made quite an impression on us. Her last posts were May 6, and she mentioned then that she had until June to finish up her term. Ahh, the joys of preparing for final examinations.
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin


myArmoury Admin

PostPosted: Sat 11 Jun, 2005 6:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Alina has quit our site and she won't be returning. She called a person a name which resulted in her post being removed and her being moderated for it. She became "disproportionately upset" (her words) and quit in a huff (my words), deleting all of her attachments in anger and asking for her account to be deactivated.

I wish this hadn't happened. I wish she was continuing to share with us. And I wish she didn't feel compelled to sabotage her previous posts. Life goes on.

I want to get back on the subject of arms and armour and off this subject. If you have any comments or questions, direct them to me via Private Message.. if you must.

Thanks.

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David Etienne




Location: Ittre, Belgium
Joined: 17 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Mon 13 Jun, 2005 1:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

For those interested, Alina is still active on the SFI.

David
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