Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

Sean Flynt wrote:
You mentioned blocking--I think one of the niftiest things about polearms in the 5-7 foot range is that one can lead with the butt, use that end to parry a blow and open up the opponent to a powerful strike with the blade. Basically, you can have the blade cocked back behind your shoulder, ready to deliver the strongest possible strike, but without leaving you vulnerable to being "timed".


You have hit on one of the reasons that I like polearms, you can use both ends to strike, block, or mislead your oponent and still avoid being open to counter attack.

I also like that the length of a polearm allows you to move the business end quite a ways without much hand movement. As an example, my brother has a way of using a spear wherein he grips the (relatively short) shaft about on third of the way from the butt, and places the other hand near the butt. By moving the back hand 6 inches, the head moves 12, and he is thus able to defend most of his body, or attack at nearly any point of mine very quickly.

-Grey
Here is anohter photo of mine, Enjoy! :D


 Attachment: 93.37 KB
d20008.JPG

What is that thing on the far left in the picture? Some kind of two handed flail?
Nice collection, William. I would love to own a nice bec de corbin someday. Like others have said, polearms have such a great multifunctional meanness going for them. :cool: My son has been studying Okinawan karate for six years and has been learning weapons for a couple of years now. When I watch him do kata with his bo (quarterstaff), I can just imagine how nasty some of those techniques would be if there was a good halberd or bec head attached. These weapons don't get the press they deserve.
Sean Flynt wrote:
Steve Fabert wrote:
...A weapon that combines three different functions, like the poleaxe, is both aesthetically pleasing and commendably practical...


I think this is a vitally important point, though it seems to be overlooked by many folks.


This gets at why I love late medieval polearms. Its sheer versatility is amazing. The poleaxe has always stuck me as the ultimate technological achievement of the medieval battlefield. Devastatingly powerful and beautiful to boot. It would be the one weapon I would carry into battle if I had to choose just one.
It's interesting to note, too, that Silver and others favored polearms with the most functions. And if you look at 16th c. illustrations of combat I think you'll see that halberds--axe, spear, hook and staff--are ubiquitious while glaives and awl-pikes, while represented, are less common. Interestingly, it seems that most masters of arms in the period felt that the thrust was the best offense as far as polearms were concerned.
J. Padgett wrote:
What is that thing on the far left in the picture? Some kind of two handed flail?


Exactly, yes. Nasty peasants realized that the thing not only threshes grain, but puts most unfashionable creases in my plate armour.
Let's talk a bit about tassles. I made one for my glaive because they were very common in the 16th century. One source tells us these were intended to prevent blood from running down the haft and spoiling one's grip. If I can be forgiven a Simpsons quote here, that sounds to me like "coo-coo yip-yap". I don't see many (or any?) tassles on polearms until the 16th century, and if the buckets of blood that must surely have run down the hafts of medieval polearms did not bother medieval soldiers, I doubt it bothered renaissance soldiers. So, what's the tassle for?

If what I am observing is correct--that the tassle appears in the 16th century--it may have developed parallel to the professionalization of armies, specifically the development of the sergeant class. Renaissance sergeants often were armed with a halberd or other short-ish polearm. But many common soldiers were armed with similar weapons. Adding a bright tassle the the sergeant's weapon would serve as a highly-visible badge of rank and help sergeants command attention in the press of the fight (ditto for red cloth coverings on some polearms). Take a look at contemporary artwork depicting 16th. c. battles. Lots of polearms, but relatively few with tassles, and those pretty easily picked out from the crowd. These treatments also look nice on parade, so it would make sense that they were retained for ceremonial arms.

This is speculation on my part, of course. Any other ideas?
I'm not sure about the blood comment (I saw that once, was that a thread here?), but here is a 16th century take on the matter:

'Art Of Warre'
Thomas Garrard,
1591
page 8

"...I will onelie say thus much more concerning the pikeman, that he
ought to have his Pyke at the point and middest trimmed with handsome
tassets, and a handle, not so much for ornament as to defend the
Souldiers bodie from water, which in raine doth runne downe alongst
the wood."
Russ Ellis wrote:
I've been meaning to ask... about that A&A pole ax. What's the deal with the "meat tenderizer" end of the thing? Why is it configured the way it is, i.e. with all the little projections and so forth?



As someone else mentioned, it tends to grip a bit better on contact. Also it concentrates force onto smaller contact points with less chance of skipping than a smooth hammer head will on compound curved plate. But there is another thing which became apparent when we started concentrating on grappling with the axe instead of just throwing blows. (Which are easily deflected when you pay attention). When you place that grid into mail and give the haft a slight twist, it locks up the mail in a bunch. This is as good as grabbing the opponent with an open hand. You can push, pull and drag him off balance. Its very disruptive. :cool: Armour isn't as useful to him once he's on the ground face down.

A slightly different poll axe called the Bec du corbin often have four projecting teeth that form a coronel. Wickedly efficient against mail reinforced plate when used as mentioned above. The bec or fluke is as often used to hook an elbow, knee or neck. The idea that the bec is meant to penetrate plate like a giant pick axe is a bit fanciful. It gets stuck in the plate! Not an attractive event on a battlefield. :eek: Not so much of bad thing in a judicial duel. We need to learn more about weapons optimized for the duel like the sword - axe thing Liberi illustrates in Flos. Maybe these variations will tell us more about how they were used.
Matthew Kelty wrote:
I'm not sure about the blood comment (I saw that once, was that a thread here?), but here is a 16th century take on the matter:

'Art Of Warre'
Thomas Garrard,
1591
page 8

"...I will onelie say thus much more concerning the pikeman, that he
ought to have his Pyke at the point and middest trimmed with handsome
tassets, and a handle, not so much for ornament as to defend the
Souldiers bodie from water, which in raine doth runne downe alongst
the wood."


That's an outstanding bit of primary source information, Matthew. Thanks! I do see a number of polearms of Garrard's era with two sets of tassles exactly as he describes. It's not clear to me what use these would be as umbrellas for the "Souldiers bodie," but if Garrard is referring to the soldier's hands and arms, then I can see that the tassles and cloth could make some difference. Still...why no medieval tassles? It may be that there are multiple reasons for these.
>It's not clear to me what use these would be as umbrellas for the "Souldiers bodie," but if Garrard is referring to the >soldier's hands and arms, then I can see that the tassles and cloth could make some difference.

Not as umbrellas per se. Polarms and pikes are carried on the shoulder for marches, and having a tassle that sits about a foot above and behind your shoulder will prevent rainwater from rolling down to your clothing. It collects on the tassles and drips off of them.

As far as why not earlier, remember that the Polearm really only becomes a standard weapon to a large degree in the 1400's. Sure, they existed earlier, but not in the 10,000+ strong deployments that you see in the Renaissance. It's also that these were more standing armies than the feudal levies who fought close to home for a limited time. The Soldier on constant march has very different needs than the peasant mounting his brushhook to a stick and fighting for a month.

I'm sure someone, somewhere figured this trick out, and it became a practice in practicality among the Soldiers long before it became an edict from the CO.
Matthew Kelty wrote:
>Polarms and pikes are carried on the shoulder for marches, and having a tassle that sits about a foot above and behind your shoulder will prevent rainwater from rolling down to your clothing. It collects on the tassles and drips off of them.


Ah, the joy of experimental archaeology! I do still wonder what difference this would make in the rain, however. The rain falling on the head of the polearm also is falling on the head (shoulders, legs, etc.) of the man carrying the polearm. But I can see that in a light rain that wouldn't necessarily soak a man's clothing, water could collect on the polearm and concentrate a flow into a single spot on the man's shoulder.

Fascinating stuff! Makes me want to go out in the rain with my glaive. On second thought, I don't really want to be front page news tomorrow (Dry-Shouldered Local Man Found Shot, Holding Spear).
>The rain falling on the head of the polearm also is falling on the head (shoulders, legs, etc.) of the man carrying the >polearm.

If you think of the difference of ~38 square inches of Head, and maybe ~24 square inches of Shoulder exposed to the rain, vs. ~48 square inches of shaft plus ~1-144 square inches of weapon exposed to the rain, I think I'd rather not be collectling that extra ~200 square inches of rainwater onto a 6 inch long, 1 inch wide place on my cloak.... :)

Don't forget the fact that you're walking around with a lightning rod.... :)
I've always been curious as to the strength of the shaft. Is there any flex in a 6-8 foot polearm? Would landing a strong blow against an armored opponent cause the shaft to break?
Most polearms tend to use Ash, a very strong but flexible wood (kind of like Hickory). If you're asking whether hitting the actual blade or what not will snap the pole, the answer is a pretty solid "no". These were weapons of war. Sure, they break on occasion, but when used in the manner they are intended, they have a very long life.

One other detail that is occasionally misunderstood is the Langets, or straps down the sides. Many people describe these as used to prevent swords from cutting the heads off. While they certainly do assist in that regard, I will happily volunteer one of my 1 1/2" ash poles to a cutting test, and reserve the right to giggle when all you do is mangle your blade. You're not going to "cut off " even an inch of seasoned, oiled Ash. You might find a flaw, and break it along a crack or knot, or maybe lodge it between two other weapons and force it to break, but for the most part, it ain't gonna get lopped off.

The Langets *do* however act as a brace that tranfers the energy of a blow away from the socket, and down the pole. That 3/32" thick piece of iron or steel isn't much agaist lateral blows, but when it's an inch tall, it will handle some serious load when performing a chop or a thrust. You will occasionally find a historic piece that has a langet along the face and back instead of the side, but these are extremely rare, and are usually only found on thrusting weapons, or a one-off from a lousy weaponsmith/physicist... ;)
One thing I have noticed is that the head of my A & A Poleaxe feels balanced when doing a horizontal strike while a heavy Danish axe will have the head trying to point downwards: Gravity making a horizontal stroke impossible without holding the shaft tightly, otherwise the head will rotate in the hands.
The axe side of the Poleaxe is counterbalanced by the hammer side making the head neutrally balanced when on it's side as well as at any other angle.

A lot of the more versatile polearms seem to be balances this way.

Now a double headed Danish axe would have this same quality: I find it strange that double headed axes tend to exist more in " Fantasy " barbarian weapons and seem to have been rarely used historically.

A lot of early double headed axes seem to have been ceremonial or religious objects: Just seems strange that most Danish axes are one bladed.

Considering the above balance and handling issue any advantages to the single edged axe that I am not getting :confused:
I have wondered for some time now about the handles of axes, viking axes in particular. Many reproduction axes seem to have a round handle cross-section. This I gather from pics in the net, if I'm wrong please correct me. As having used quite a variety of the wood felling and splitting and pruning axes of early previous century used in forestry, I know that the key to a proper blade alignment with an axe, is an oval cross-section in the handle. And that is not roundish, but very flat oval. Is there any evidence of round axe handles, or am I barking at the wrong tree in the wrong town?

BTW, the amount of shape in those old axe handles is amazing! No way you can get anything like that from a supermarket these days.
Risto Rautiainen wrote:
I have wondered for some time now about the handles of axes, viking axes in particular. Many reproduction axes seem to have a round handle cross-section. This I gather from pics in the net, if I'm wrong please correct me. As having used quite a variety of the wood felling and splitting and pruning axes of early previous century used in forestry, I know that the key to a proper blade alignment with an axe, is an oval cross-section in the handle. And that is not roundish, but very flat oval. Is there any evidence of round axe handles, or am I barking at the wrong tree in the wrong town?

BTW, the amount of shape in those old axe handles is amazing! No way you can get anything like that from a supermarket these days.


I've seen lots of war-axes in museums, and not one had a round shaft opening in it.
>I've seen lots of war-axes in museums, and not one had a round shaft opening in it.

Ditto. Most Halberds, Hammers, Glaives, essentially anything with a very definite edge alignment in the 6-8' categories tend to have square handles. Bardiches tended to see a lot of oval and ovoid handles, and pikes are fairly well round.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

Page 2 of 7

Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum




All contents © Copyright 2003-2006 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Full-featured Version of the forum