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Martin Wallgren
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 Posted: Thu 26 May, 2005 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Joachim Nilsson wrote: | | Aaron Schnatterly wrote: |
Where I am, there is history, and it is interesting, but you have to look for it - it's like it isn't really important. Where you are, though... man... THAT'S history, and it is still there in the open. |
Unfortunately most native Swedes know SQUAT about their own history or roots. Something I have a very hard time reconciling with...
Heck, we could even take a field trip to Skansen in Stockholm just so you could get the opportunity to reach out and physically touch an old timber cottage dated to the 14th Century. Yes, it's still standing. And yes, you read it correctly: 14th Century. Then we'll go oogle the arms and armour in the Royal Armoury and scuttle through the streets of "Old Town", looking for weapons and stuff in all the old antiquity shops.  |
Yeah! Last summer Joachim and I was offered ti by a authentic bronzage sword/dagger for 35000 Skr (4 700 $) in one of the those places.
We unfrortunatly didn´t have that much money....
Martin
Swordsman, Archer and Dad
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Joachim Nilsson
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| Posted: Thu 26 May, 2005 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Martin Wallgren wrote: |
Yeah! Last summer Joachim and I was offered ti by a authentic bronzage sword/dagger for 35000 Skr (4 700 $) in one of the those places.
We unfrortunatly didn´t have that much money....
Martin |
Oh man... Was it absolutely nessecary to remind me of that?! *bangs head against keyboard* I couldn't sleep properly for weeks after that.
I wondre if it's still there though... 
I would love to get my hands on a couple of those antique caltrops he had though. Harlan, you hearing me?! Caltrops! 
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Martin Wallgren
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| Posted: Thu 26 May, 2005 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Russ Ellis wrote: | Drat yahoo turned up nothing other then a story saying it was a pair of divers that found the sword... but still no picture.  |
Oh, the sword the divers found is another sword from that lake... All our lakes are just full of swords (or one might belive...)
hehe
Martin
Swordsman, Archer and Dad
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Patrik Erik Lars Lindblom
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| Posted: Thu 26 May, 2005 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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same picture some better
Frid o Fröjd!
Patrik
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Joachim Nilsson
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| Posted: Thu 26 May, 2005 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Patrik Erik Lars Lindblom wrote: | same picture some better
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Yiiess! That's what I like! That cross looks very... interesting. Would be nice to see PJ's interpretation of how it would have looke dback in the day. I'm also very curious about what the balde will look like.
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Aaron Schnatterly
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| Posted: Thu 26 May, 2005 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, agreed. Much clearer photo, and quite a nice piece!
Given the odd perspective, it's a little hard to tell what's going on there with the cross. Like the overall design - fits my personal tastes from what I can make out. What's up with that pommel? Is it pinned through the side?
Oh, and Martin - if there were a significant chance of making a find like that, I'd bring my SCUBA rig. You know... since those bodies of water are just teeming with relics.
Yup, definitely going to have to make it to Sweden. Definitely. I think I'll finally feel like I have found someplace I belong to. I know that probably sounds odd, but I've never felt like I belonged somewhere... but always felt a desire to make it there. Even when I was little.
-Aaron Schnatterly
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Fortior Qui Se Vincit
(He is stronger who conquers himself.)
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Thu 26 May, 2005 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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Looks like what is left of the guard might be a side ring ? Would have to see the other side to see if there is a trace of a main strait or curved guard.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Aaron Schnatterly
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| Posted: Thu 26 May, 2005 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Jean Thibodeau wrote: | | Looks like what is left of the guard might be a side ring ? |
Was wondering the same thing - both sides appear to be turned toward the same side - was this the way it was, or did time and the elements take a toll? Just not clear enough to tell for sure. This piece will be on my mind a bit, though...
Will DEFINITELY be interested in Peter's interpretation.
-Aaron Schnatterly
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Fortior Qui Se Vincit
(He is stronger who conquers himself.)
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Daniel Parry
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| Posted: Fri 27 May, 2005 2:47 am Post subject: |
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That's a lucky catch !
The guard does look very short - is it intact or were bits broken off ? I wondered too whether the guard had been bent that way originally. I guess accident or elements couldn't bend it so evenly in the same direction. I've only seen S-shape guards in books before - is that a common guard shape ?
I can't tell if that's cord or wire on the grip from the photo.
Is this an Eastern European style of sword or a Venetian style or was it from elswhere in Europe? The only ones in my books that look anything like it seem to be described as Eastern European, Slavonic or Hungarian.
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Joachim Nilsson
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| Posted: Fri 27 May, 2005 2:57 am Post subject: |
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| Daniel Parry wrote: | That's a lucky catch !
The guard does look very short - is it intact or were bits broken off ? I wondered too whether the guard had been bent that way originally. I guess accident or elements couldn't bend it so evenly in the same direction. I've only seen S-shape guards in books before - is that a common guard shape ?
I can't tell if that's cord or wire on the grip from the photo.
Is this an Eastern European style of sword or a Venetian style or was it from elswhere in Europe? The only ones in my books that look anything like it seem to be described as Eastern European, Slavonic or Hungarian. |
I've reacted to the seemingly short guard too and have in fact been wondering the same things. That, among othe rthings, is why I'm so eager so what PJ will churn out and his take on the whole thing. It could be some kind of perspective issue with the photograph too. But still.... It looks awfully short.
S-shaped guards in Scandinavia... I'm not 100% sure at the moment I'd like to call them common, but they certainly are out there. Quite a few of them too. As well as some numbers of other twisted shapes of crossguards. *currently lacking caffeine and can thus not come up with a more proper word than "twisted"*
I've seen a number of swords found in Scandinavia that resemble that sword to one degree or another. The shared aspects being "crosses in othe rshapes than straight" and quite long handles. But I think Peter Johnsson can answer this question better than me right now since he has researched and studied more swords than I have. 
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Russ Ellis
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Fri 27 May, 2005 6:02 am Post subject: |
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| Joachim Nilsson wrote: | | Aaron Schnatterly wrote: |
Exactly. Wouldn't be my first run-in...
... besides, we're kinsmen! Cut me, I bleed half Swede! I'm a Carlsson (on mom's side)! |
Oooh. A fellow Swede. Nothing better than having a go at other Swedes! Half or not!
| Quote: | | I would imagine it happened quite a few times. Unless that weight is distributed such that the ice will hold, well, it won't hold. Down you go. I'll have to check into that battle - sounds familiar. |
I may have mentioned it before once or twice in various discussions I've participated in. I'm not too sure there's anything published in any other language than Swedish though. The battle became public knowledge fairly recently when they discovered a mass grave in the middle of Uppsala a few summers ago. Until that it was all but forgotten, only known to a handful of the more historically educated. But... If you managed to set your foot on our ancient soil, we'd be more than happy to escort to to the castle in Uppsala. That's where they keep the permanent exhibiton of some of the finds related to that battle. We could even go look for where they found the mass grave in the first place. Not too far from the castle. |
Or maybe he is thinking of Alexander Nevsky? As I recall Nevsky deliberately lured an Army of Teutonic knights onto the ice and then broke the ice...
TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
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Aaron Schnatterly
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| Posted: Fri 27 May, 2005 6:43 am Post subject: |
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| Russ Ellis wrote: | | Or maybe he is thinking of Alexander Nevsky? As I recall Nevsky deliberately lured an Army of Teutonic knights onto the ice and then broke the ice... |
Nope... but that sounds familiar, too. My poor brain works off of concepts and theories, rather than on remembering facts and details. Some say I have a terminal case of CRS (can't remember sh..)
I would think there were many situations through history when ice (or the sudden displacement of) caused a lot of grief for folks. Not wanting to take this thread on an unnecessary side street (or discuss the movie itself in any detail), I will state that, although fantastic, the scene in King Arthur was certainly illustrative of the "oh, crap!" that could occur on ice.
-Aaron Schnatterly
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Fortior Qui Se Vincit
(He is stronger who conquers himself.)
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Patrik Erik Lars Lindblom
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| Posted: Fri 27 May, 2005 6:57 am Post subject: |
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I have make it bigger and light it up a bit, lots of ooh and aah here to look at 
 Attachment: 103.5 KB
The Vättern Sword
Frid o Fröjd!
Patrik
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Joachim Nilsson
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| Posted: Fri 27 May, 2005 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| Patrik Erik Lars Lindblom wrote: | | I have make it bigger and light it up a bit, lots of ooh and aah here to look at |
Ooooooooh. Bra jobbat!
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Russ Ellis
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Fri 27 May, 2005 7:59 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Patrik! I'm perplexed, do both arms of the cross curl the same way?
TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
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Joachim Nilsson
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| Posted: Fri 27 May, 2005 8:03 am Post subject: |
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| Russ Ellis wrote: | | Thanks Patrik! I'm perplexed, do both arms of the cross curl the same way? |
It certainly looks that way. Could it be that we are seeing the remnants of a heflty side-ring there? Or have they just been distorted by time?
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Aaron Schnatterly
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| Posted: Fri 27 May, 2005 9:01 am Post subject: |
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| Joachim Nilsson wrote: | | Russ Ellis wrote: | | Thanks Patrik! I'm perplexed, do both arms of the cross curl the same way? |
It certainly looks that way. Could it be that we are seeing the remnants of a heflty side-ring there? Or have they just been distorted by time? |
That's the same thing Jean and I were discussing a couple of postings ago. It's hard to tell... Unless it was quite abusive down there, I would imagine it would be difficult to distort this cross as such. If it was that abusive, I want my house built out of the material that scabbard is made from!
-Aaron Schnatterly
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Fortior Qui Se Vincit
(He is stronger who conquers himself.)
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Patrik Erik Lars Lindblom
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| Posted: Fri 27 May, 2005 9:25 am Post subject: |
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I don't think it have happen them something,
they looks like hollow on outside and twisted in a small angle but still have a horizontal straight line,
thats make them strong, it's just the tip on them that have rusted away a bit and saved the rest:)
my 2öre about it
Frid o Fröjd!
Patrik
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Russ Ellis
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Fri 27 May, 2005 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| Aaron Schnatterly wrote: | | Joachim Nilsson wrote: | | Russ Ellis wrote: | | Thanks Patrik! I'm perplexed, do both arms of the cross curl the same way? |
It certainly looks that way. Could it be that we are seeing the remnants of a heflty side-ring there? Or have they just been distorted by time? |
That's the same thing Jean and I were discussing a couple of postings ago. It's hard to tell... Unless it was quite abusive down there, I would imagine it would be difficult to distort this cross as such. If it was that abusive, I want my house built out of the material that scabbard is made from! |
Exactly... so either we've got some truly bizarre corrosion that attacked the hilt metal more then it did the wooden scabbard or else we've got an entirely new hilt type... Wish they could show us the thing without the scabbard on... is it an XVIIIe...
TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
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Joachim Nilsson
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| Posted: Fri 27 May, 2005 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| Russ Ellis wrote: | | Aaron Schnatterly wrote: | | Joachim Nilsson wrote: | | Russ Ellis wrote: | | Thanks Patrik! I'm perplexed, do both arms of the cross curl the same way? |
It certainly looks that way. Could it be that we are seeing the remnants of a heflty side-ring there? Or have they just been distorted by time? |
That's the same thing Jean and I were discussing a couple of postings ago. It's hard to tell... Unless it was quite abusive down there, I would imagine it would be difficult to distort this cross as such. If it was that abusive, I want my house built out of the material that scabbard is made from! |
Exactly... so either we've got some truly bizarre corrosion that attacked the hilt metal more then it did the wooden scabbard or else we've got an entirely new hilt type... Wish they could show us the thing without the scabbard on... is it an XVIIIe... |
Yeah, well... I was just brainstorming... Throwing stuff out there... Never mind.
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