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Brent Rattan




Location: Texas
Joined: 19 Apr 2004

Posts: 35

PostPosted: Tue 19 Jul, 2005 1:26 pm    Post subject: My New Arms &Armor Friedrich IV Spear         Reply with quote

Hello all. First, this post is a little delinquent as I received my Arms &Armor Friedrich IV Spear back in May. Kept meaning to put up a post but . . . better late than never.

First, a shout out to the folks at Arms & Armor. Purchasing from them was a very pleasant experience even though they were swamped with spring sale orders.

The spear is much nicer and much more spear than I expected. It has good heft, the head is very solid and keen edged. The ash shaft is very nice, smooth and straight.

In my humble opinion this is an excellent weapon. It seems to be a versatile combination between hunting and fighting spear. With such a stout head I feel certain that it would have no problem punching through an armored opponent. I have tested throwing it a few times into my archery bale, but that certainly does not seem to be for what it was made.

One thing that I must note: it arrived with a damaged point. About 1/8th inch of the tip was rolled back. I do not know whose fault this was, but it was not packaged well enough to prevent this and the tip seemed to be very fine. I wasn’t too bothered with this as it gave me the opportunity to hone and reshape the tip to what I think is a more durable and serviceable point.

Anyway, for $186.00 (that includes shipping) it seems to be a bargain.

Below is a picture of the tip and of the head. The tiles are 6 inches for a frame of reference.



 Attachment: 65.43 KB
A&A Friedrich IV Spear.JPG


 Attachment: 57.42 KB
Tip.JPG


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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jul, 2005 2:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Congratulations Brent! That one has also been on my want list for some time.
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jul, 2005 3:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Brent;

Now you've done it: Something else to put on my list Happy Well eventually !

I have the 12th century spear and is also very stout and I would think would be a good armour ( Maille ) piercer. The wings are larger on yours and there is more decoration.

The Viking spear seems like it could also be more useful in a slash as the blade is thinner: More like a dagger on a stick and cuts against unarmoured or lightly armoured would be effective, with a thrust the Viking blade seems strong enough to be able to do it without damage but its' wider profile and more rounded tip would make breaking through a link of a mail shirt more difficult. Oh, the Viking spear head is visually bigger but lighter in weight than the Viking spear: The Viking balances closer to the middle of the haft.

As a repeat customer of A & A I can say that good service from them is the norm not the exception.

Good pictures there, thanks.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!


Last edited by Jean Thibodeau on Wed 20 Jul, 2005 10:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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Gary Grzybek




Location: Stillwater N.J.
Joined: 25 Aug 2003

Posts: 559

PostPosted: Tue 19 Jul, 2005 4:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Congradulations!

I'm very happy with mine too Big Grin

Gary Grzybek
ARMA Northern N.J.
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Edward Hitchens




Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
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PostPosted: Wed 20 Jul, 2005 9:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Congrats Brent! Their Friedrich IV is one of my favorite polearms; that and their Knightly pole-axe. I was a little shocked to hear of the minor damage, but it sounds like you fixed it okay.

I own a couple Arms&Armor pieces. They certainly are among the best of the best. Happy
-Ted

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Sean Flynt




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PostPosted: Wed 20 Jul, 2005 11:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Beautiful, and a great bargain!
-Sean

Author of the Little Hammer novel

https://www.amazon.com/Little-Hammer-Sean-Flynt/dp/B08XN7HZ82/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=little+hammer+book&qid=1627482034&sr=8-1
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Thomas McDonald
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PostPosted: Wed 20 Jul, 2005 4:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Very nice spear, Brent ! ..... A&A does wonderful work !

Congratulations, Mac

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Steve Grisetti




Location: Orlando metro area, Florida, USA
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PostPosted: Wed 20 Jul, 2005 4:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Very nice piece! I have no pole arms at the moment, but need to consider changing that situation.
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Benjamin H. Abbott




Location: New Mexico
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PostPosted: Thu 21 Jul, 2005 9:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Looks nice.

How much does it weigh, how long is it, and where's the point of balance?
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Brent Rattan




Location: Texas
Joined: 19 Apr 2004

Posts: 35

PostPosted: Thu 21 Jul, 2005 2:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It is 6'10", weighs in at 3.5 pounds (although I swear it feels much lighter) and the PoB if about 31.5" from the tip. Hope that helps! Again, its a very nice piece.
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Aaron Schnatterly




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PostPosted: Thu 21 Jul, 2005 2:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Others have said it, and I'll say it again... nice piece. I'm definitely a fan of what I have seen of A&A's polearms. One of these days, I'll be picking up a couple of their pieces. Thanks for the pics - always nice to see another view.

Brent Rattan wrote:
I have tested throwing it a few times into my archery bale, but that certainly does not seem to be for what it was made.


It is 6'10", weighs in at 3.5 pounds (although I swear it feels much lighter) and the PoB if about 31.5" from the tip. Hope that helps! Again, its a very nice piece.


Did it tumble when you threw it? With a CoG that close to the middle and a Center of Pressure probably fairly close to center as well, I'd guess it would be pretty unstable in flight.

Getting this out of physics terms - there isn't enough drag to keep the caboose behind the engine.

Fletching on an arrow creates a lot of drag, and pushes the Center of Pressure way towards the back. Not that I would ever advocate it, but if you were to shoot an arrow without the fletching, it wouldn't be accurate if even remotely safe. Put it on, and an Olympic archer can do some amazing things.

I'm not saying go put fletching on your spear, just trying to get an idea of why you felt it wasn't good for throwing.

-Aaron Schnatterly
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Brent Rattan




Location: Texas
Joined: 19 Apr 2004

Posts: 35

PostPosted: Thu 21 Jul, 2005 7:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Aaron, your fletching-less arrow analogy is pretty much spot on. Too much movement in the caboose.

I didn't really try very hard as it just didn't have the right feel before I even threw it (to me at least, and I do throw axes and knives from time to time and have thrown light spears and javelins).

Now I am no powder puff, but maybe someone with more Conanesque strength would be able to put a little more va-voom on it and get it to throw better. But, with the head that it has and the length of the shaft, I do not think throwing is really in its design.

Thanks for all of the great comments!

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Aaron Schnatterly




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PostPosted: Fri 22 Jul, 2005 3:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Brent Rattan wrote:
I didn't really try very hard as it just didn't have the right feel before I even threw it (to me at least, and I do throw axes and knives from time to time and have thrown light spears and javelins).

Now I am no powder puff, but maybe someone with more Conanesque strength would be able to put a little more va-voom on it and get it to throw better. But, with the head that it has and the length of the shaft, I do not think throwing is really in its design.


That's pretty much what I figured. It didn't seem to me to be primarily a throwing piece, rather one to be used in hand.

Oh... I think it would be a matter more of finesse and technique than of brute strength. A .22 cal bullet short subsonic or a .50 Barret - no rifling and it's going to suck. Throwing it a little closer to the head, adding no cross-vectored forces (in other words, throw it straight, not in an arc which would make it tumble) may yield better results.

-Aaron Schnatterly
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Jeff Johnson





Joined: 05 Jan 2004

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PostPosted: Fri 22 Jul, 2005 6:27 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've had luck throwing these bigger spears overhand when I give it a bit of a spin on release.
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Aaron Schnatterly




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PostPosted: Fri 22 Jul, 2005 6:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeff Johnson wrote:
I've had luck throwing these bigger spears overhand when I give it a bit of a spin on release.


Thanks, Jeff - I figured that there was a trick to it. The areodynamics of a football aren't much better than this spear, but a tight spiral does wonders to stabilize it's flight. Looks the same here... the right-hand rotation should help pull it forward.

Cool stuff! Wink

-Aaron Schnatterly
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Fri 22 Jul, 2005 12:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I would also think that these very large spears would be thrown at " Bad Breath " range were stability would not be as critical as a long range cast.

My Viking A & A is balanced closer to the middle of the shaft than the 12th century A & A which has a heavier head: Can I assume that the 12th century one would be more stable in the thrown ?

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Aaron Schnatterly




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PostPosted: Fri 22 Jul, 2005 1:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
My Viking A & A is balanced closer to the middle of the shaft than the 12th century A & A which has a heavier head: Can I assume that the 12th century one would be more stable in the thrown ?


Quick physics lesson...

CoG is where the summed mass exists. The whole spear could be summed up as that single point with that much mass.

Center of Pressure is where the drag acts.

In order for something to fly (arrow, rocket, whatever...) It needs to be stabilized, pushed exactly straight, or have the Center of Pressure sufficiently behind and inline with the motion of the object in motion.

If you shoot a straight bar of even mass straight along it's axis, it will tend to go straight.

If you put a rolling rotation on an object (such as a spiral on a football, or the rifling of a barrel on a gun, or the slipping of a hand while throwing), it will help to stabilize the flight - especially if it is along the long axis.

The Center of Pressure (fletching on an arrow, for example, or a tassel on a throwing dart) will fall behind and inline with the motion of the CoG of an object in motion. If you have a regular dart, try throwing it (in a clear direction, please) fins first. It will flip around, and the point will lead. Not as accurate, of course... The Center of Pressure is almost at the butt end of the dart, and the CoG is in the heavy head somewhere. That's a significant difference - what, about 3.5 inches on something 5 inches long? (seriously, go try this experiment! It's cool!)

If this doesn't make sense, I'll try to explain it better...

Ok, so looking at Jean's 12th C and Viking spears... If the head is heavier and they are on a similar pole, the CoG is probably slightly forward on the 12th C one - Jean confirms this. The Center of Pressure is probably still similar on both. That would lead me to think that it might be SLIGHTLY easier to throw.

Still, though, the Center of Pressure is pretty close to the CoG, and it will take something like Jeff's rotation added to the toss, as well as a good linear push, not an arc, to get any really effective result.

Everyone got that? Man, y'all made me think today... Razz

-Aaron Schnatterly
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