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Elling Polden
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 Posted: Mon 24 Oct, 2005 11:39 am Post subject: |
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Or they where just not added to the drawings. Kind of like scabards. Or they could be carried under the tunic, like the money purse...
"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Mon 24 Oct, 2005 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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Most pre-14th century effigies don't illustrate a dagger being worn. Let's not fixate too much on one resource.
"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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Joe Maccarrone
Location: Burien, WA USA Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Posts: 190
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| Posted: Mon 24 Oct, 2005 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Patrick Kelly wrote: | I have been told that the cross-hilted daggers we medieval enthusiasts love so much were somewhat of a rare thing, with the ballock knife actually being far more common. Peter Johnsson has told me that nearly all of the originals he has examined have been single edged.
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Interesting, and this points toward (egregious pun) a notion that has been growing on me: that large knives, suitable for fighting or utility, would have been much more common than cross-hilted daggers dedicated to fighting, due to their edge geometry.
As many in today's industry have pointed out, it's almost as expensive to make a cross-hilted dagger --akin to a miniature sword -- as it is to make a sword. You may be using a lot less steel, and less labor for the blade, but just as much labor on the cutler's end.
A good, stout, single-edged knife with a rigid blade and sharp point, with a pressed/glued/riveted handle, is just as effective in combat, far cheaper to make, and better suited for utility tasks. Perhaps the cross-hilted dagger was more of a luxury item. I do think everyone would have had a knife of some sort, but probably not a dagger, per se.
Coulda been a simple matter of economics... 
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Joe Maccarrone
Location: Burien, WA USA Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Posts: 190
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| Posted: Mon 24 Oct, 2005 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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Worth noting, also, that many cross-hilted daggers were also single-edged, according to Oakeshott...
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Mon 24 Oct, 2005 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe a lot of those early single edged daggers were descendant of the earlier Sax ?
Also I can't help seeing the Sax as very close in shape and function to a Bowie knife with stylistic period differences.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Joe Maccarrone
Location: Burien, WA USA Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Posts: 190
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| Posted: Mon 24 Oct, 2005 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, I think the descendants of the seax have been with us continually for the last 1000 years!
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Geoffrey H
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| Posted: Mon 24 Oct, 2005 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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The advantage of a single edge is that you can apply your thumb to the back of the blade, making a much more usefull tool. The same cannot be said for a double edged dagger. I would imagine that a well designed single edged dagger would be just about as effective in combat as a double edged.
Lurker
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Mikko Kuusirati
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| Posted: Tue 25 Oct, 2005 3:20 am Post subject: |
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| Geoffrey H wrote: | | The advantage of a single edge is that you can apply your thumb to the back of the blade, making a much more usefull tool. The same cannot be said for a double edged dagger. I would imagine that a well designed single edged dagger would be just about as effective in combat as a double edged. |
A double-edged blade might have a slight edge (hah!) over a single-edged one in penetration on a thrust or stab. A false-edged one, on the other hand, combines the best points (double hah!) of both.
"And sin, young man, is when you treat people like things. Including yourself. That's what sin is."
— Terry Pratchett, Carpe Jugulum
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