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Jean Thibodeau
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 Posted: Sun 11 Dec, 2005 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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Addison;
You might consider the A & A Viking spear: http://www.arms-n-armor.com/pole014.html
The one in Patrick's Picts is the A & A 12th century spear I believe.
The prices are not dirt cheap but are far from expensive, but the quality is very good: I have both of these.
Still a $40 buck spear can still look right and be not junk.  
Oh, Patrick's Danish Axe is also from A & A. 
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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John Cooksey
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| Posted: Sun 11 Dec, 2005 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Jean Thibodeau wrote: | Addison;
You might consider the A & A Viking spear: http://www.arms-n-armor.com/pole014.html
The one in Patrick's Picts is the A & A 12th century spear I believe.
The prices are not dirt cheap but are far from expensive, but the quality is very good: I have both of these.
Still a $40 buck spear can still look right and be not junk.
Oh, Patrick's Danish Axe is also from A & A. |
Gotta second that.
My "large Viking spear" from A&A is absolutely top notch in quality of construction.
My only complaint was that I had to drill a hole for pinning/pegging myself.
Of course, that meant I got to make it the size I wanted. :-)
I am planning on buying a couple of "cheap" Windlass and Hanwei spears soon, too.
Edited to add:
The A&A Danish axe is awesome too.
It's a fearsome cutting tool of large proportions.
I have owned one, and it is sharp, nimble, and too fast to be believed.
I didn't surrender, but they took my horse and made him surrender.
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Johan S. Moen
Location: Kristiansand, Norway Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 259
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| Posted: Mon 12 Dec, 2005 1:55 am Post subject: |
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| John Cooksey wrote: |
Gotta second that.
My "large Viking spear" from A&A is absolutely top notch in quality of construction.
My only complaint was that I had to drill a hole for pinning/pegging myself.
Of course, that meant I got to make it the size I wanted. :-)
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Hm, I hve been adviced against drilling holes in the spears socket for pinning it to the shaft, if that is what you have done. The reason was that the pin would create a stress point, and there is quite a lot of force being transmitted at the point already. So I just used some epoxy to attach the socket to the haft. Though I must say, I do not know which option is the best...I sorta want to make sure the socket does not suddenly come loose, but then again I do not want to have the shaft cracking at every battle or training.
Let us know how the pinning stands up to use!
Johan Schubert Moen
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Mon 12 Dec, 2005 4:43 am Post subject: |
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Pinning the head to the shaft was a common practice historically.
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Chuck Russell
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| Posted: Mon 12 Dec, 2005 5:07 am Post subject: |
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| Addison C. de Lisle wrote: | I'm from Midcoast Maine, and as for "Viking", I believe that we redefined what I want as a "Dark Age" warrior kit, to leave more room for interpretation. I'm pretty sure there aren't any local groups, but there may be some that I don't know about. I'm open to suggestions of all sorts, so keep them coming!
Oh, and I think I'll probably get a spear before a sword for this kit. I like this one by CAS Iberia (I know they're not the greatest quality-wise for swords, but I think if Patrick bought one, I'm justified  ). It's labelled "throwing spear head" but I don't believe them. They claim "The Nordic warrior frequently carried several light throwing spears into combat.", which I find doubtful for several reasons. Where would you carry the spears, you'd have to put down all but one to throw them because you have a shield in your other hand, plus you're disarming yourself and potentially giving the enemy a weapon.
Any, back to the point, I think this would be appropriate, and it looks nice.
A shield (either teardrop or round) may also be in order. Painting is fun! |
dark age warrior= viking same difference  to go a vikr=to go out=to raid
a spear is a wise starting palce for a weapon. a sword is an expensive item inthe time. a spear should be first, axe then a saex then the sword. having a sword meant you had somewhat of in income.
from grave finds and digs, there are lots of spear heads from throwing spears. the javelin or throwing spear would have a thinner/longer head. but then so could the spear you held on too. there are lots of different spear types within the viking era 790s-1066 ad. not all warriors had shields. plus you always have the saex(long knife) as your secondary weapon.
if you want dark age/viking. go with a round center grip shield. like you see on www.viking-shield.com
groups:
http://members.aol.com/MtFreehold/RhuddlanIndex.htm is in VT
http://www.vikingsna.org/ always a great place to start your search for groups. its the north american part of the vikings form england.
http://www.mathomhouse.com/regia/index.html north american part of the regia anglorium(sp) from england
you may need to email the web master for local group listings. most are not online.
vikings/normans etc is one of my life long studies. i've got a library of about 55 books just on this subject alone. let me know if i can help.
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Johan S. Moen
Location: Kristiansand, Norway Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 259
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| Posted: Mon 12 Dec, 2005 5:41 am Post subject: |
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| Patrick Kelly wrote: | | Pinning the head to the shaft was a common practice historically. |
What I wonder is, from when? I've seen quite a lot of pinned heads from 1100 A.D and upwards, but few before 1000 A.D. I suppose it depends on the size of the socket and the haft. My spearhead is quite small, best suited for stabbing, and the shaft is quite thin.
Does anyone have any sources for pinned spearheads during the migration/viking era?
Johan Schubert Moen
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Johan S. Moen
Location: Kristiansand, Norway Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 259
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| Posted: Mon 12 Dec, 2005 5:44 am Post subject: |
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| Chuck Russell wrote: |
dark age warrior= viking same difference to go a vikr=to go out=to raid
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Or, alternatively, a man from Viken/from the bays. But I admit, the origin of the word Viking is a bit hazy, and could probably mean different things as well.
Johan Schubert Moen
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Chuck Russell
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| Posted: Mon 12 Dec, 2005 5:54 am Post subject: |
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| Johan S. Moen wrote: | | Patrick Kelly wrote: | | Pinning the head to the shaft was a common practice historically. |
What I wonder is, from when? I've seen quite a lot of pinned heads from 1100 A.D and upwards, but few before 1000 A.D. I suppose it depends on the size of the socket and the haft. My spearhead is quite small, best suited for stabbing, and the shaft is quite thin.
Does anyone have any sources for pinned spearheads during the migration/viking era?
Johan Schubert Moen |
jsut a few:
ninth c head found in times river
a bunch of finds form teh 6thc
the peterson s and k have holes in them.
what gets me is the spear heads with the thin tangs that go down into the shafts. i would think after a few shild hits the shafts would splinter around the base of the spear
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Elling Polden
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| Posted: Mon 12 Dec, 2005 7:14 am Post subject: |
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Spear input:
The norwegian 13th cent. laws state that a spear shall be no longer than that you can reach the socket when it is standing next to your, and that the head shall be secured with a nail that goes all the way through, or two that go half way each.
13th cent sources also say that you should never throw away your last spear.
there are lots of references to throwing spears in the sagas. Granted, these are mostly written in the 13th as well.
Sverre's saga, from late 12th, divides combat into three phases; Shooting, hurling and hewing.
Others, like Håkon Håkonson's do not differentiate; Everything from bows to daggers is "Combat"
As for the thin spear shafts; either, these are javelins, or you didn't need a thicker spear shaft. With sharp spears you do not stabb at shields; they get stuck...
We use real thin, 2 cm pine shafts for our one handed spears; this they are not very breakage prone. IRL these would have been ash, wich is a LOT more resilient.
And, of course, they might bee seen as disposable.
If somone takes the time to give your spear a good whack with his sword, the shaft has to be replaced, no matter what.
Thin spear shafts also means that you can drag along more than one spear...
In one of the battles in Sverre's saga, a fighter throws his sword at the enemy king... And this is a naval battle, so chances of recovery is slim.
"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
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Geoff Wood
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| Posted: Mon 12 Dec, 2005 8:19 am Post subject: |
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| Addison C. de Lisle wrote: | They claim "The Nordic warrior frequently carried several light throwing spears into combat.", which I find doubtful for several reasons. Where would you carry the spears, you'd have to put down all but one to throw them because you have a shield in your other hand, plus you're disarming yourself and potentially giving the enemy a weapon.
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Hi Addison
You (or I, anyway) can easily carry a couple of spears gripped by your shield hand and lying alongside the grip. Leaves the other hand free for whatever.
regards
Geoff
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John Cooksey
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| Posted: Mon 12 Dec, 2005 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| Geoff Wood wrote: | | Addison C. de Lisle wrote: | They claim "The Nordic warrior frequently carried several light throwing spears into combat.", which I find doubtful for several reasons. Where would you carry the spears, you'd have to put down all but one to throw them because you have a shield in your other hand, plus you're disarming yourself and potentially giving the enemy a weapon.
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Hi Addison
You (or I, anyway) can easily carry a couple of spears gripped by your shield hand and lying alongside the grip. Leaves the other hand free for whatever.
regards
Geoff |
Depends on how long the spears are, right?
Obviously, a couple of six footers would get in the way if you were moving, but shorter javelins or assegai (!!!) wouldn't get in the way at all. :-)
Zulus did that as regular practice.
I didn't surrender, but they took my horse and made him surrender.
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Addison C. de Lisle
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| Posted: Mon 12 Dec, 2005 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Elling Polden wrote: | Spear input:
The norwegian 13th cent. laws state that a spear shall be no longer than that you can reach the socket when it is standing next to your, and that the head shall be secured with a nail that goes all the way through, or two that go half way each. |
Interesting that there was weapon regulation even then. If I am to follow this guideline, the spear shaft alone should be approximately 9 feet long...perhaps I should shorten it up a bit...
| Quote: |
In one of the battles in Sverre's saga, a fighter throws his sword at the enemy king... And this is a naval battle, so chances of recovery is slim. |
[/quote]
Hmm...that doesn't seem very practical. Iron was hard to come by for the Norse (I've read), and iron-smelting for blades was not completely understood (again, I read somewhere). A sword was very expensive for this reason. Why would he throw it away?! In addition, the tip of the Norse sword doesn't look particularly well-adapted to sticking into things (a lot more parabolic than "normal" swords)...
I've looked at the Arms and Armor stuff before, and it looks good, has a good reputation as well. Bob will probably chime in any moment now...
I've seen the axe there, and it looks nice. Oh, and I believe the order of purchase (if I was to pretend I was accumulating wealth, hah) should be something like Axe, Spear, Seax, Sword.
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Aaron Schnatterly
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| Posted: Mon 12 Dec, 2005 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Addison C. de Lisle wrote: | | Oh, and I believe the order of purchase (if I was to pretend I was accumulating wealth, hah) should be something like Axe, Spear, Seax, Sword. |
If you are looking at doing this in order of prevalence and utility in time period, it would go this way:
Seax, axe/spear, sword.
The seax is like a pocket knife... walk down the street today - how many civilians have one? It's so danged common, the Saxons were named after the things... Soft kit, man... this is part of the soft kit.
Next would be either the axe or the spear, as they would have both civil and military use, are much more available, and cheaper. You can't hew trees or hunt game with a sword with nearly the efficiency of an axe or spear.
As for actual purchase order in the 21st century, well... that's whatever order you want to get them in (if you want them all).
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Addison C. de Lisle
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| Posted: Mon 12 Dec, 2005 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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Right then, spear, seax, sword. Then axe. Thanks!
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Chuck Russell
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| Posted: Mon 12 Dec, 2005 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Aaron Schnatterly wrote: | | Addison C. de Lisle wrote: | | Oh, and I believe the order of purchase (if I was to pretend I was accumulating wealth, hah) should be something like Axe, Spear, Seax, Sword. |
If you are looking at doing this in order of prevalence and utility in time period, it would go this way:
Seax, axe/spear, sword.
The seax is like a pocket knife... walk down the street today - how many civilians have one? It's so danged common, the Saxons were named after the things... Soft kit, man... this is part of the soft kit.
Next would be either the axe or the spear, as they would have both civil and military use, are much more available, and cheaper. You can't hew trees or hunt game with a sword with nearly the efficiency of an axe or spear.
As for actual purchase order in the 21st century, well... that's whatever order you want to get them in (if you want them all). |
ya your right, now why did i put saex so far in? sorry about that. musta been before coffee. ya saex, axe, spear, sword, army hehehehhe
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Addison C. de Lisle
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| Posted: Mon 12 Dec, 2005 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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You forgot castle, and your own country. Crown is last :P
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Geoff Wood
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| Posted: Mon 12 Dec, 2005 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| John Cooksey wrote: | | Geoff Wood wrote: | | Addison C. de Lisle wrote: | They claim "The Nordic warrior frequently carried several light throwing spears into combat.", which I find doubtful for several reasons. Where would you carry the spears, you'd have to put down all but one to throw them because you have a shield in your other hand, plus you're disarming yourself and potentially giving the enemy a weapon.
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Hi Addison
You (or I, anyway) can easily carry a couple of spears gripped by your shield hand and lying alongside the grip. Leaves the other hand free for whatever.
regards
Geoff |
Depends on how long the spears are, right?
Obviously, a couple of six footers would get in the way if you were moving, but shorter javelins or assegai (!!!) wouldn't get in the way at all. :-)
Zulus did that as regular practice. |
The two I was referring to are one of seven and one of eight feet long. It depends where one the shaft you grip them as to how much they get in the way of your legs. Holding them alongside the grip and thus against the back of the shield gives additional support (they are in a groove of sorts) so they can be held fairly rigidly/readily over quite a range of positions on the shaft. I am a comparative weakling, so this isn't a strength thing. I was surprised how easy and convenient it was to do.
Geoff
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Bob Burns
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| Posted: Tue 13 Dec, 2005 1:04 am Post subject: |
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Hi Addison,
I have been mulling around in my mind for a couple of years now about what kind of a kit I would like to put together, I just started collecting swords in July of 2005 and have acquired quite a few swords and weapons of premium and good quality. However, I have no idea what kit I want to put together, I do know that I cannot afford a suit of armor. Personally, I'd love some advice from the members of this website. I think I am most interested in the 14th thru the 16th centuries of Western Europe, but I also like the Viking era and the 11th thru 13th centuries.
Any advice is most welcome!
Although I sure do like looking at photographs of other members in their kits, and I have seen some really fantastic kits that appear to my early learning eyes to be very elaborate in detail and accuracy. They are all very inspiring to see, well I guess in the meantime I'll just keep collecting swords etc. as my budget allows.
My Salute to My Fellow Collectors,
Bob
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John Cooksey
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| Posted: Tue 13 Dec, 2005 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| Geoff Wood wrote: | The two I was referring to are one of seven and one of eight feet long. It depends where one the shaft you grip them as to how much they get in the way of your legs. Holding them alongside the grip and thus against the back of the shield gives additional support (they are in a groove of sorts) so they can be held fairly rigidly/readily over quite a range of positions on the shaft. I am a comparative weakling, so this isn't a strength thing. I was surprised how easy and convenient it was to do.
Geoff |
Hmmmm . . . . .neat!!!
Those are pretty long, longer than I would have thought to carry in that fashion.
I'll have to try it with my seven-footer.
I didn't surrender, but they took my horse and made him surrender.
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Addison C. de Lisle
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| Posted: Tue 13 Dec, 2005 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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After looking over the Albion page again, It's going to be a tough call between another sword or starting a kit... 
Munich, Earl, Dane, Thegn, Clontarf...why must you be so perfect...
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