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Don Calcote




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PostPosted: Fri 03 Mar, 2006 6:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Robinson wrote:
I'd think that a private equity/investment opportunity would be a more worthwhile endeavor than the Benefactor program. Truthfully, the Benefactor Society makes me generally worry about the state of the industry, and specifically about Albion. I hope all is well in New Glarus.

Traditionally, the method I typically use to support a company is to buy its goods. On that note, people, go buy some swords. Wink


my thoughts exactly, so I bought my first "real" sword from them on Tuesday.
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Joe Fults




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PostPosted: Fri 03 Mar, 2006 8:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Robinson wrote:
I'd think that a private equity/investment opportunity would be a more worthwhile endeavor than the Benefactor program. Truthfully, the Benefactor Society makes me generally worry about the state of the industry, and specifically about Albion. I hope all is well in New Glarus.

Traditionally, the method I typically use to support a company is to buy its goods. On that note, people, go buy some swords. Wink


I'm waiting on two orders now. Not excessively long waits, but one of the orders has been delayed already.

I believe I have somewhat more than $900 deposited/paid, which is a significant amount to me.

I'd love to buy more stuff from Albion, but I'm just not comfortable commiting more money to models that are not in production right now. At least not until something I already have on order arrives.

"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Fri 03 Mar, 2006 10:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Joe Fults wrote:
I'd love to buy more stuff from Albion, but I'm just not comfortable commiting more money to models that are not in production right now. At least not until something I already have on order arrives.

I agree. I'm in the same boat. I've had money waiting for over 2 years, myself, and find it frustrating to have that tied up without anything to show for it. This is an important point, actually, because it's the other part of the equation I outlined above. For Albion's sake, I'd suggest the following Customer Investment Plan: have customers order items, have customers pay money for items, deliver items to customer, satisfy customer, and then repeat indefinitely. This tried and true method often works well to keep company's solvent. Back to basics.

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Geoff Wood




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PostPosted: Fri 03 Mar, 2006 10:56 am    Post subject: psych barrier         Reply with quote

As a non-US buyer, the $1000 barrier is less of an issue. What with fluctuating exchange rates and somewhat arbitrary and obscure duties, you're never sure what you'll pay until the thing finally arrives. Currently, the total (exchange, delivery, tax, duty etc) cost to me of a $1000 sword would be about £800.
Geoff
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Fri 03 Mar, 2006 3:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I would add to what Nathan said that so far the introduction of new swords has been impressive and welcome but getting previously announced swords into production should take priority over adding new products.

The danger is that Albion overreaches and gets into financial trouble or stops being a reliable vendor, the hit to it's good reputation could create a negative spiral of fewer orders as people wait to see if things get back on track.

The best sales techniques is good product delivered when promised at a price that is both profitable for Albion and affordable for the buyers. Having a range of product prices that covers the smaller budgets as well as large ones should be maintained in the product line.

Well, I would say that we shouldn't start rumours based on this topic: At the moment the only negative is scepticism about the marketing wisdom of the Benefactors program. The rest is just speculation about how much more can Albion expand and at what pace and not have problems.

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Alex Oster




Location: Washington and Yokohama
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PostPosted: Fri 03 Mar, 2006 5:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I noticed the Special edition of the Dicerner (I'll never get the spelling right) is gone, and now the regular edition is $1500 (+$300 from before). This is one I was planning on doing soon, but now due to school I really need to do some more thinking. I keep thinking about what I want to get, but school sucks my funds. I hate to see price fluxuations, but what can we do? Remember, the Conan swords went up and down, so who knows what will happen. As for being bumped by a "bennefactor", I think thats a little harsh sounding to make public. What you do behind the scenes is one thing, but I would hate to be told I was bumped. Now if it was a cash in hand issue, I would understand. If someone walked up with $2k and said gimme, I would be a fool to wait for final payment from another customer who may be a few months in the fiunal payment.

I'm a little tierd, and have been typing for most of the day, so I'll leave it all at that. However, once done with school and employed, I will be more than happy to have Albion garnish my wages in order to feed my addiction. Wink

The pen is mightier than the sword, especially since it can get past security and be stabbed it into a jugular.
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Fri 03 Mar, 2006 6:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

We all want Albion to keep doing well and producing more toys to feed our obsession; And hopefully be able to afford buying some. Eek! Laughing Out Loud
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Joe Fults




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PostPosted: Fri 03 Mar, 2006 8:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Actually its not speculation.

Businesses have three sources of capital: operations, financing, and investing. Where a business goes for capital tells us something about the company. On the product launch webpage for the Benefactors Society, Albion tells us quite a bit. In fact they tell us more than they should, they tell us where they went for capital.

"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Fri 03 Mar, 2006 8:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Joe Fults wrote:
Actually its not speculation.



Hmmmmm ............... Good point Worried

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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Fri 03 Mar, 2006 11:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I prefer Albion's other program where we, as loyal customers, purchase and put money down on swords not already in production. We're fronting money by doing this which amounts to an investment. Like other investments, these ones will also pay off as the sword follows through development and into production. But before that process is complete, we're fronting investment capital to fund the R&D. I personally feel good about this type of investment and would imagine it's benefited Albion quite a bit. I certainly hope so.
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Joe Fults




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PostPosted: Sat 04 Mar, 2006 11:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Robinson wrote:
I prefer Albion's other program where we, as loyal customers, purchase and put money down on swords not already in production. We're fronting money by doing this which amounts to an investment. Like other investments, these ones will also pay off as the sword follows through development and into production. But before that process is complete, we're fronting investment capital to fund the R&D. I personally feel good about this type of investment and would imagine it's benefited Albion quite a bit. I certainly hope so.


That's the program I've put my money in.

"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
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Roger Hooper




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PostPosted: Sat 04 Mar, 2006 11:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I was just over at Albion musing over the swords (as many of us do) and I noticed that all the estimated completion dates for the unreleased models have been removed.
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Joe Fults




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PostPosted: Sat 04 Mar, 2006 11:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Roger,

Good eye.

I just checked and it is as you say, but that's completely craptastic news. Mad

"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
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Mark Mattimore




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PostPosted: Sat 04 Mar, 2006 11:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Roger Hooper wrote:
I was just over at Albion musing over the swords (as many of us do) and I noticed that all the estimated completion dates for the unreleased models have been removed.


Probably a smart move on their part. That way they don't set expectations that they may not be able to meet.

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Joe Fults




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PostPosted: Sat 04 Mar, 2006 2:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mark Mattimore wrote:
Roger Hooper wrote:
I was just over at Albion musing over the swords (as many of us do) and I noticed that all the estimated completion dates for the unreleased models have been removed.


Probably a smart move on their part. That way they don't set expectations that they may not be able to meet.



Mark,

You are right, going forward it is a good idea.

Unfortunately expectations have already been set and some of those expectations are already unmet.

"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd


Last edited by Joe Fults on Sat 04 Mar, 2006 3:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Joe Fults




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PostPosted: Sat 04 Mar, 2006 3:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

With this latest news, I'm honsetly a bit pissed.

I'm not going to buy anything else unless its in production.

Until something I have on order gets delivered, I doubt I'll buy anything else from Albion period.

This sucks.

"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
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Steve Grisetti




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PostPosted: Sun 05 Mar, 2006 3:38 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Alexi Goranov wrote:
...the Brecsia Spadona did not change in price (if I remember correctly the old prices).

Addison C. de Lisle wrote:
...my second-favorite, The Brescia Spadona (first-favorite being the Svante), is still the same price...

Look again, fellows. The Brescia Spadona is now listed at $1600, where the previous price was $1500. You probably looked before Albion completed their update. Sad

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Edward Hitchens




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PostPosted: Sun 05 Mar, 2006 8:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jared Smith wrote:
I placed my order for the Munich the same night it was announced (June 7th http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=4219&start=0) on this forum. I was declared order # 2 (Aaron Shatterly #1.) Now the cost has gone up by almost as much as my deposit. It sounds as though it will arrive a year late, precidence of orders dismissed!


If you placed an order for a sword before the price increase (even though it's not yet in production), then you should still pay the original price (Munich, $900+shipping). Once you make a deposit, that's a solid contract that the maker must honor -- that the price you pay is the one marked at the time of your order, even if it goes up later on.

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Jared Smith




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PostPosted: Sun 05 Mar, 2006 9:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I agree that is how it should be (price quoted at time of advanced reservation should be honored) but do not know if the policy has been guaranteed for older orders. Below is a "happy story" example where Albion terms were very fair in just the last few weeks.

One of the orders I made (late January 2006) on the recent Albion holiday sale was for the Ringeck. Albion did guarantee the price as it was listed based on the time I reserved it, plus took $50 off the price (only cost about $508 with shipping that way versus about $650 plus shipping if I were to reserve it now.) This was really quite generous, since the sale could have been construed as restricted to swords already in production.

If one counts reservations for swords expected to be delivered this year plus orders recieved, I already feel like a "benefactor" since I have very close to $2000 in purchases on swords alone.

Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence!
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Geoff Wood




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PostPosted: Sun 05 Mar, 2006 10:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jared Smith wrote:
I agree that is how it should be (price quoted at time of advanced reservation should be honored) but do not know if the policy has been guaranteed for older orders. .


Albions policy, has been , and still is, and obviously should be, that the price when reserved is the price you pay. The 'when' may be variable but the 'how much' is guaranteed. They have said this on many occasions and I've never come across any evidence to suggest to the contrary, includng my own personal dealings with them. I'm aware that many people are less than pleased with Albion within this thread so far, because of the price increases, the delays etc., but lets not start suggesting bad behaviours of them with no evidence. They've put their prices up. They said they would, well in advance, and they have. If you ordered before, then you'll get it (eventually, in some cases) at whatever price was in effect at that point.
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